From Baptist Pastor to Magic Practitioner

What happens when a deeply committed Baptist pastor with five biblical degrees begins to question everything he's been taught? Sun of Thunder's remarkable spiritual journey will challenge and inspire anyone who has ever felt constrained by religious dogma or wondered if there's more to divine connection than what traditional institutions offer.

Sun of Thunder is a gifted healer, clairvoyant and fledgling hoodoo practitioner who was ordained as a preacher of Free Will Baptist (FWB) church. Over time, FWB recognized Sun of Thunder's earnestness in religious educational pursuits, including reading interpretations of the Aramaic and Greek Bibles, and named him Christian Education Director for 27 churches. Eventual pushback on these pursuits coupled with the church's decisions to not aid the community when in dire need convinced Sun to walk a spiritual path away from FWB that better aligns with his truth about God and living in harmony with the world.  

Details

Our guest takes us through the pivotal moments that transformed his spiritual path—from a near-fatal car accident where four mysterious hands pushed him back from certain death, to his rise as a respected pastor and Christian Education Director overseeing 27 churches. But beneath his successful ministry career, questions were brewing. Why weren't churches studying original biblical languages? Why did congregations refuse to help struggling neighbors during the housing crisis? And perhaps most troubling, why did spiritual experiences in nature feel more authentically divine than anything he experienced within church walls?

Sun of Thunder describes how a gentle breeze once provided profound healing during one of his darkest moments, and how this experience challenged everything he'd been taught about divine connection. "I received what I needed from nature itself and was able to go forward. So you can't tell me it's all about things in four walls," he explains. His journey eventually led him to explore ancestral veneration practices, creating space to honor those who loved him in life and continue to provide guidance beyond death.

The conversation delves into profound questions about power, control, and authentic spirituality. What happens when institutions position themselves as necessary intermediaries to God? How do we respectfully learn about diverse spiritual traditions without appropriation? And how do we find our own truth when it conflicts with established dogma?

If you've ever questioned your spiritual path or felt drawn to deeper connections with nature and ancestors, this episode offers both validation and inspiration. As Sun of Thunder reminds us, "There's a tribe for every single person. There's no such thing as truth until you decide what truth is for yourself."

References

Dr. Delbert Blair - About Dr. Delbert Blair | The Meta-Center

Braiding Sweet Grass, author Robin Wall Kimmerer

Wild Church - Wild Church Network - Home

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:07

Welcome to the Mystical Mermaid Lounge Podcast, a space where all spiritual seekers are honored and celebrated. This podcast was born from the journeys of your hosts, who have each faced her own dark night of the sun, but they've emerged with an unshakable belief in divine connection, cosmic inspiration, and her true life's calling. Join us on a journey of personal growth, transformation and magical self-discovery. Your first co-host is Chloe Brown, a gifted intuitive empath and shadow work life coach. Your second co-host is Keoni Starr, an intuitive energy worker and acclaimed past life regressionist. The Mystical Mermaid Lounge podcast starts now. We are so happy to welcome our guest, Son of Thunder. You will be amazed at his story that ultimately shows his integrity, moral character, strength, and connection to spirit. Son of Thunder is a former Baptist pastor and Christian education director for 27 churches. He's here to talk to us about his experience as a pastor. and why he ultimately left the church and decided to pursue nature-based practices, voodoo, and venerating his ancestors. Welcome, Son of Thunder. We are so happy to have you with us.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54

I'm excited to be here. Glad to share.

SPEAKER_01: 1:57

Thank you. We are so excited to have you here. Tell us a little bit about

SPEAKER_00: 2:02

your background. I'm an Eastern North Carolinian, Greenville, Kingston, Wilson area. So when I grew up, I'm close to 50 years old. It was dirt roads. There wasn't town or anything for like 20 miles. In those areas, religion is everything. People live for the weekend. A lot of times the biggest event in your life was church. So, you know, you go to church, see your friends, you see family. It was a community, but when people grew up and moved out, they still came back to that same place. So for some people, including myself, going to church was almost like a mini friend reunion. I grew up Basically, just going to go. The storytelling was awesome because our pastor used to be in New Brunswick, so he could absolutely captivate you with his preaching. Then I got a little older. I went to college, and that's where the story goes another direction. I was in a car accident, and I literally saw my life fresh before my eyes. And I saw what to me were all the important moments. And I saw the birth of my niece. I remember different things that were important to me and formed me into the person I was then. And all this is happening is the windshield is coming towards my face. My nose is literally about to touch. I'm about to go through the windshield. And there I was. I had steeled myself and prepared to meet whatever end it was. According to the religion I was raised in, me not being saved, it meant I had like an automatic ticket to hell. But this is what changed everything for me. Instead of me... going through the windshield and having a broken neck and bleeding out on the pavement. Four hands on my chest and on my belly literally pushed me back. I was actually pressing against the steering wheel with all the might that I had. And I was pretty strong. I could bench about 400 pounds then. And then those four hands came and pushed me back in that seat with so much force that knocked the wind out of me. I couldn't even breathe. So instead of people coming to my funeral crying, I'm in the car and now I'm in the ambulance. And I'm wondering, how in the world am I even alive? I got hit headlong and somehow survived. I know I didn't have the physical strength and I was a pretty strong man to survive this. What happened? I went to a store and bought my first Bible ever. So I'm like, listen, I've done some reading here. I've done some studying. And this is my little prayer. If you are truly up there and you exist, then I'll dedicate my life to you. But if you're not real, I kind of need to know now. So if there is something, I need to see a miracle. It needs to be something to convince me to exist and I'll serve you. Things happen, I'm like, okay, well, this must be it. So I went to church and I actually became a preacher. I got ordained, I preached, and I actually taught Bible study in my conference. I became a Christian education director. I literally have five biblical degrees.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

So you were an actual preacher. What denomination of church were you preaching?

SPEAKER_00: 5:05

Free Will Baptist.

SPEAKER_01: 5:08

That's a fire and brimstone.

SPEAKER_00: 5:10

All day.

SPEAKER_01: 5:13

So

SPEAKER_00: 5:13

what happened? I'm a nerd at heart, so I listened to NPR and found out what was going on in the world. So I learned that the Bible wasn't originally written in this English, King James Version. So then I went to talk to the literal head of all nine branches of Free Will Baptist. And I asked, since this isn't the original language and you want to be as close to as you can to the source, then why shouldn't we be doing investigations to get back to Aramaic, to get back to Hebrew? They said a lot of this stuff has really changed over the years based on whoever wrote it. And it was not necessary, he told me. On NPR, there was this guy who was 91 years old. He had gotten his doctorate. He was a priest. He could read the Bible, of course, in English, Old English, Gaelic, Hebrew, Aramaic. He could read it in Greek, and he could even read the ancient Hebrew. Shouldn't we want to do the same kinds of things?

SPEAKER_01: 6:08

Seems like a fair question as the Christian education director and a pastor.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

I did go digging. I did go reading. I bought translations. Some people in these churches, they're dead because they're concerned about their souls. And those are the people you should be trying to reach, leading people towards some sort of salvation or leading them from one place to another and actually giving them hope. How can I be privy to this but not bring it?

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

Right. So that clearly disillusioned you. And then you mentioned something about the housing crisis.

SPEAKER_00: 6:42

This was 2008 when the housing crisis was just going crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

Right. You had a friend who tried to wake up the churches a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 6:51

right here in Greensboro. She literally went to several neighborhoods, took pictures of churches, and on that one block, took pictures of the houses in foreclosure, sent that stuff to the pastors and was like, listen, on the block your church sits, you have people that are in peril, in need, families that are breaking up, people being removed from their homes. What are you doing to help them? The response, don't come to my church.

SPEAKER_01: 7:20

So what was your response to that when you heard that?

SPEAKER_00: 7:23

Back then, I had a whole different kind of mindset. Like, you know, they don't support that church. But then I learned something. In 1999, there was a flood down the east. It was like the 175-year flood, literally insane. I know of a church where the whole community was flooded out. They had a building where that was dry. It literally could have housed a couple hundred people. They have refrigerators there. They have stoves. It could have been a life's blood to people that had literally lost everything. I'm talking cars, houses, clothes, all the food they had. They literally lost everything. And instead of being the beacon of light the church is supposed to be, well, if they come in here and somebody break their leg, it's a liability. So I had to do something different. When I came to spirituality or came to magic, I came with ill intent. And I happened to find out about shadow work. So six months of shadow work, I got myself together. I'm meditating. I'm able to recognize my part in whatever happened. Because sometimes, you know, you might just ask for it. So when I recognized my part of it and I was able to come outside of myself, narrow vision I had and see it for what it was, then I was able to take a deep breath and be like, listen, that's not what this is about. Because when I started studying, when I was looking at the hoodoo and the voodoo and and looking into the different religions of West Africa. And I also did a study on Wiccan. It's really like a practice of light. I found the same thing with magic. It's about living in harmony with the world, but also being able to bend some things in your favor. First of all,

SPEAKER_01: 9:05

it is not common in any traditional religion to find people who can look back critically and say, something's not adding up here. You had the wherewithal, even after all those degrees and being ordained, to say the word and the intent is not matching up here. That speaks to who you are in your heart. So I just have to say that. Number two, I like how you described the vision here. of seeing so many things related to your life in a split second as you were coming to meet the windshield in that car accident. I'm presuming that's not the first time you've had that kind of vision,

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

is

SPEAKER_01: 9:58

it? I

SPEAKER_00: 9:59

remember being younger. Man, we used to ride bicycles. My grandma used to live literally straight down the street. I remember seeing certain houses and seeing people that didn't live in the houses in the house. I could kind of see through them. And some of them, it was the most unwelcoming, meanest looking folks. So I'm on my bicycle like, okay, guys, stay away from here. I didn't know what that site was. And then, you know, you will see some things. It's inviting. It's calm. It's warm. It's approachable. I was in church. This is one of the things that I remember. With this right here, I shall never forget. The preacher was up there. He was talking. There was somebody that had a Thought they had seen an angel in the field. So this person ran all the way back to the house and was like, I seen an angel in the field. They asked for such and such. So everybody ran back down here to see the angel. Lo and behold, there was this glorious being for the light. According to the story now, it turned dark and hideous and just about beat a man to death. And that cured me from going to talk to or approach anything that I saw. That one story, I think I was maybe six years old when I heard it, and it stuck with me to this day. It took a lot to get past that. Because, you know, if you have auditory,

SPEAKER_01: 11:20

they

SPEAKER_00: 11:23

always tell you, if you hear a voice, don't answer it. I had an experience where these angels, I know that's what they were now, showed up, and I knew any time an angel shows up in the Bible, the first thing they say is, you're not. because they are some crazy looking massive creatures usually. I saw them and I was like, I'm going to go over there. And that story kicked in the back of my head. But they were massive. And I know they were there because I had asked the question. When I went there, I must have spoke to the angel because I lost an hour. I don't know what was said. I can't in my meditation go back to get to it yet. But when I came back, because I was at work, to me it had been more than maybe like 10 minutes. I came back and they were like, dude, you've been gone for an hour. I looked at my watch and I had literally been gone for an hour. So I don't know where we went or what was said, but that helped me to kind of get past this whole story I heard about this supposedly glorious being turned into something dark and crazy and beating this man almost to death. But yeah, as far as it goes, now that I'm sitting back and I'm looking at it, Because a lot of things, being a child, I kind of put in the back of my mind. When you come home and, you know, you talk about that kind of stuff, you know, your people kind of massage it out of you. But then when you get older and you start having these experiences and you're like, you know, I had asked for a visitation and I asked to for clarity concerning these things and to show me any evil or any negative entity or spirit or anything that's against me or any hidden work or whatever. And it popped up in front of me. I asked about this right here and I received it because it was my prayer. When you ask for it and you get it, now you have to deal with the fact that it happened and you got it.

SPEAKER_01: 13:13

Those experiences you've been having all your life, it's always been there.

SPEAKER_00: 13:18

Like mantras. When I was small, in my head all day long at school, I'm just reciting these mantras, reciting these mantras. I mean like 10 hours, 12 hours straight. And then when it happened, I'm like, That's because I prayed for it. Gratitude, it will get you absolutely long ways. I was in my car. It was storming. I mean, it was insane. And I'm one of those people where I appreciate the magic in storms. I appreciate the power in storms. And I appreciate the rain they provide and the way they just change the earth and make sure everything continues forward. But I do not like being stuck out in it. When I got home, you know, people need to tell their homes, thank you so much for protecting me and sheltering me because it's cold outside. I could be out there. It's raining outside. It's raining outside. I could be out there. I could literally be out here fighting for my life in the midst of a storm. I'm just thankful to be here, safe, sound, and secure. Thank you for providing that for me. It's a house. People think maybe they won't respond, but to me, I think everything has some will and some spirit. I literally feel like right now, even as I'm reiterating it, that it's being thankful right back. Like, you know, thank you for noticing.

SPEAKER_01: 14:30

In the book, Braiding Sweetgrass, the author talks about making sure we show appreciation to Mother Earth and show our gratitude, whether it's by an offering, whether it's through a prayer, something to show that we recognize and appreciate the abundance that she shares with us. And I thought, what type of relationship would we think it's okay for us to just take and never to show appreciation or give anything in return? I think they call that toxic. Toxic relationships.

SPEAKER_00: 15:11

I was an avid tither. I mean, like 10% of everything I got. If somebody gave me 30 bucks, I'm giving the church three. I was an avid tither. Tithing is a promise.

SPEAKER_01: 15:23

I guess you didn't feel the church was keeping its end of the promise.

SPEAKER_00: 15:27

Give your 10%, then I'll make sure that you have more than you can receive. If that's the case, somebody line. Because if I give you one out of every 10 that I have, and you're going to make my cup supposed to run it over, that is the literal best deal gone. Why would I not want to take advantage of that? But there are tons, I mean, literally millions of people Perhaps billions of people around the world that are doing that get nothing.

SPEAKER_01: 15:59

I liked what you said about living in harmony with the earth and living in harmony just with the energies of the animals and the elements, nature. Is that what drew you to hoodoo?

SPEAKER_00: 16:16

I didn't know anything about hoodoo or voodoo or anything really in the beginning. Well, it actually drew me towards Wicca because that's kind of like where I started.

SPEAKER_01: 16:27

I see. So you went to Wicca after some of the excluded books of the Bible made an impression on you, like the Gospel of Thomas.

SPEAKER_00: 16:40

When you read, God is in the wind, God is in the trees, God is in the leaves, God is in the grass. To me, that resonated. I was having the absolutely worst day ever. I was outside by a bridge, and I remember just being at my wit's end, like, what on earth am I going to do? And the gentlest wind blew past me. I felt this nice, warm, comforting breeze come by me, and it literally nurtured me to the point where my burdens had been lifted. I was back into perspective, and I could get back in my car, and I could drive. I didn't need the church for that. And I'm going to say that's one of the 10 worst days of my life that I can remember. And I received what I needed from nature itself. And I was able to go forward. I remember those things. So you can't tell me that it's all about the inside of four walls.

SPEAKER_01: 17:38

So I'm curious, did you believe that that was God talking directly to you? And it's because you're a preacher, which is why you had that capability?

SPEAKER_00: 17:48

I can speak about that, Dave, particularly because I had this war in my mind, if you will. I had noticed, and my sister had actually brought it to my attention, that anything that I had said would come to pass. And I remember the one thing in particular. So I had noticed that my sister would always shut the door in this car, and it was like a heavy door. Hey, you better stop before you, you know, shut your hand up in that door.

SPEAKER_01: 18:11

I know exactly where this is going. Pain. My parents used to have a car with really heavy car doors and I was just a little kid. And I remember while I was reaching out my hand to close the car door, I kept my other hand braced on the frame so I could get leverage.

SPEAKER_00: 18:36

We went somewhere and came back. She closed the door and she shut her finger in that door. She was over there hollering. And then I ran over there and I helped her open the door. My sister was hot. I was just trying to give you the warning because I seen it coming. I saw it. Then I was thinking, well, you know, could that possibly be me? Because I didn't meet her in the home. It was just the foresight. If anybody has that kind of power, it wouldn't be me. I'm just a little country boy. It would be somebody on some mountaintop somewhere. So I was thinking when I was younger that, you know, despite the mantras and everything and all the manifestations, And all the foresight, you're too unimportant for that. I had severely low self-esteem when I was younger.

SPEAKER_01: 19:18

Tell us a little bit about the people that you would do healing with who were standing in your after church prayer line.

SPEAKER_00: 19:28

People would come back and they wouldn't have cancer. They would come back and they would be healed of different things. People that were concerned about any different kind of element. Even one girl came to me and said, I've got to make a bill to pass and graduate high school. We prayed. She came back to me like, I graduated. The little bit that I have, or the much that I have, why shouldn't I use it to the absolute, abject best of my ability to help serve humanity? When Dr. King said that I absolutely believe that, why am I going to be here with the ability and not do something to help somebody? If I'm over here with the ability to heal, and I know I can, why am I going to sit here and watch you waste away and die with cancer? Why am I going to

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

do

SPEAKER_00: 20:16

that?

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

But your church didn't see that ability as coming from the divine. That

SPEAKER_00: 20:25

was negative. If you were a spirit on a journey through this earthen realm, or a soul on a journey through this earthen realm, If you have something, or you can be a conduit, why don't you use it to serve? Because people need it. The scripture even asks the question, are ye not gods?

SPEAKER_01: 20:50

I agree. And you read the interpretation of the Bible from Aramaic, from the Greek. You saw where politics... Power, plain misinterpretation, change the words and the intent. It has to be power, right? And fear. To think that you are as powerful as God takes the power away from the church. That's the conclusion I guess you came to. How did your family feel about that?

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

It wasn't just my family, it was the whole church. Because when you stand before the people, you need to give them everything that you have. You need to give it all. If I'm going to be here and I'm going to serve, I believe in service. I'm going to preach to you because I know I'm going to study well and study hard and make sure I'm going to present it to you the way it came to me. I'm studying because I want you guys to know. Not what I heard, not what somebody famous said, but what I know.

SPEAKER_01: 21:59

I get what you're saying. And I think that it's so powerful to be able to listen to yourself and say, hey, this is not right. And now here I am denouncing a lot of these things to your community. It felt like you did a full 180. The

SPEAKER_00: 22:16

whole thing is designed so you never make it because everything turns out being sinful.

SPEAKER_01: 22:23

I have felt healed in nature before. by nature. One of the programs that I was looking into was eco spirituality, finding spirit in nature, in the environment, in ecology. The person that started this movement was also a preacher and a female, and she was disillusioned. People are destroying our mother. And she, as a preacher, wanted to incorporate You mentioned this not being preached. She wanted to incorporate a lot of the biblical verses that spoke to how cleansing and healing nature was. And she also wanted to not just incorporate those verses in her sermons, but she also wanted to use congregational power, energy, money, manpower to help clean up the environment. We have the very people here who are listening to us and we could help them see our earth is a God-given gift.

SPEAKER_00: 23:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 23:40

And we could use our energies to preserving and to cleaning it up. And she was was told essentially that is not the church's place. That is not what they're there to preach. And, and this is what I want to get your thoughts on because you mentioned the breeze healing you, that by leading people to believe nature has energy and power, that it sounds like witchcraft. And so I'm interested because you have been ordained in a church and had experiences in nature, how was that in any way, shape, or form taking it outside of God?

SPEAKER_00: 24:25

Me in church would have said that, yes, indeed, the earth is a gift. It provides everything that we need, the food, the water, everything. But if you allow people to begin to go out and they have the experience, the true experience, let's say it that way, not the form and fashion or the emotional trigger, but the true experience, the one-on-one, then these people that hold all this power and all this money, they begin to lose it. To me, all that stuff is written and it's interpreted by people that are looking to do no more than control. Because if you go out, like they talk about how the voice of God sounded like a babbling brook, They want you to think, no, no, no, no, no. It's so powerful and so strong that it's like Niagara Falls. But it's not. When you go up in the mountains and you're near a baby stream and you hear that triple, that's what it's like. It's like that. And if you are out there and you're experiencing those things and you're starting to put two and two together, I don't need you to get the spirit. I need to be out here. And this gift that was given, how dare we as a species, as a creation, the Christians will say, the masterpiece of God, treat our sister, our mother, so horribly. I know you've been to the islands before, right? When I look at the water on the islands, it is absolutely beautiful and inviting. I can drive down the coast of North Carolina here and look at this water. It don't even look the same. If you go to the rivers further up in the mountains, they're like crystal clear. If you leave Mother Earth alone, she will heal herself. She'll do it. I have a background in development. There are just certain places we shouldn't be building. Let nature do what nature does out here. It's cool to visit. But you don't need to be building your house here. And now you got to have a septic system. You got to somehow have water. Why are you doing all this?

SPEAKER_01: 26:39

And then bring all their friends in the gated communities. And then it just keeps getting bigger. Never mind all the burial grounds they built on and the sacred land that they destroyed, the animals that are close to extinction in that area. Part of my major spiritual leaps has been during the pandemic. I relocated to Texas. I'm living in Houston. And I recognize all of these emotions and feelings that are not mine. I did find out that the communities that I was living in and around were all built on indigenous burial grounds. I could feel it. I love that you brought that up because I think that is also very paramount. Is that the power can't be within the individual because where's the money in that?

SPEAKER_00: 27:27

it's a whole construct because priestess i was listening to said one time a member of the wise women as well the whole concept of yahweh he's a member of a pantheon so he's not the be-all and end-all of godhood but the main reason why they picked him and lifted him up and gave him all these titles was because they wanted to cut the female aspect out because the priestesses were basically the last word and that was it and that's how it always was You can take the average man and sit him outside and what we're going to do, we're going to go fishing or something like that. But you can take a woman and sit her outside and she hears it all. All the rest of the world goes away and she begins to connect. That's some of the reason why, oh my man, where I come from, it was bad. 250 year old denomination. They have one woman. This was in like 2009, I think. Ever elected to that ruling council, if you will. And keep in mind, This is something that happens every three years. So at the time, there had been at least 83 of them.

SPEAKER_01: 28:33

I'd love to get your perspective on appropriation and how to respectfully educate ourselves about closed practices, but not overstep. I had the really good fortune of traveling with my husband to Yellowstone not too long ago. And the ecological director of our tour was explaining that there's an annual event in Montana. I'm not sure if it's associated with their annual affair or if it's something related to their educational system, but they definitely provided well-attended educational components where the indigenous essentially taught the non-indigenous people about indigenous traditions, practices, belief systems, rituals. People want to know, they have questions and it's hard often to get real trustworthy information. So it opened up that communication line, that dialogue. And the way they held this event was that you actually entered the elders area and you were invited in for a lesson. I totally understood why they felt the need to do that, to open up communications. And so that the indigenous people felt like they were giving information on their own terms and in a respectful way. So I say all of that to say that I think appropriation is a problem, especially when people appropriate information properly. based on mistruth or half-truth, and they're uninformed. So we had talked a little bit about your dabbling back into magic and hoodoo. You were clear you weren't a hoodoo expert per se, but that this was something that you had interest in. And I want to talk about how to have the conversation respectfully around it so that people who are interested can get real accurate information, not to take and practice. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying to understand.

SPEAKER_00: 30:46

So I was hurt and angry and everything. What I did was I wanted to go to the source.

SPEAKER_01: 30:51

So this is where the quote unquote witch doctor came in. I

SPEAKER_00: 30:56

was scared to death. All I know is all the crazy stuff that you hear. So I did. I went there and it was this colorful building.

SPEAKER_01: 31:04

So we spent time with you. A

SPEAKER_00: 31:06

good 50 hours one-on-one over the next year, you know, just talking back and forth.

SPEAKER_01: 31:11

What did you tell him about your former Baptist life?

SPEAKER_00: 31:14

I had to come to him and apologize for anything that I have said, because I know I did, in error and in ignorance, because I did. But I'm here because I need to know more about this. Because when I told him I had been outside on one of my very worst days, I've had this experience. I've literally felt I had somebody looking out for me. I didn't know anything about ancestors back then. I remember when I was young, one of my earliest memories is of a man that I didn't know. So I drew a picture of him for my mom to try to describe him and come to find out who's my great-grandfather on my mom's side. Full-blooded. I think he was either Lumbee or Cherokee Indian. And to my knowledge, we had none of that in our family. She was like, yeah, that's him. We call him Paul. He would show up in my dreams. The only reason he's doing that, I feel, you know, because dreams are demonic and whatever else, you know, on that side of the world. I'm like, he wouldn't be doing this just to torment me. Nobody I know doesn't, it is. So I went to him. You know, when people come respectfully and they come truly seeking, then it does open up the ability to have that dialogue, to have a real conversation. This guy, he was telling me about like his history and his past and his path. When people do come, we recognize the ignorance. I've been there. I've been in those shoes. Come with respect. Don't come with jokes. Don't come with playing. Because come open-minded people. Come to learn. I think it does open up the dialogue to actually become not just better informed, but gain a level of respect that people didn't even know was even there. I mean, and then if people are really looking for an example, Pope Francis came and he did the same thing a few years back. Supreme Pontiff would bring himself here and meet with elders and pray with them. How can you do any different?

SPEAKER_01: 33:10

Your hoodoo mentor really helped you with your ancestor veneration practices. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00: 33:19

In my prayers, I'm like, you know, my ancestors known, my ancestors unknown, because I don't know all of them. I don't. I know many people might not, but I burn ancestor money every day. I have an altar for gods. I have an altar for my ancestors. And I'm not burning. I have a, you know, libation offerings. I do all that. I do all that because my father's over there. I got uncles, I got cousins, people that I know are over there. And when I first started, it was one of the most negative and one of the worst days I've ever had. But I was told to be prepared for it because for the last few hundred years, most of your ancestors have been either Christians or Muslims. I had a vision. No, I think I was actually trying to visit the Ancestral Realm. So I was there. I've been bringing these offerings and, you know, sending this money and everything because I want y'all to have. They were all dressed in white. It was like a line of like 200 of them holding hands. They looked at me, called me a witch and turned their backs on me. I cried like a baby in my own, like right there. What in the world, man? Like this is not the reception I was expecting. Months later, I finally got past. Oh, my God. We don't have many people in the tradition that keep that, that we just don't. So what happens is your ancestors are there and you got some of them that are exceedingly strong and they're fine. But you got a lot of them that, you know, died Christians or that didn't have any true spiritual power or memories or anything. It's just like here only way fewer resources. So can you imagine somebody being hungry for 800 years? Can you imagine somebody growing without water? Even like I had an uncle that passed away not long ago. Less than 30 days of steel. Suppose I didn't leave water out. And this was what really, really got me to look at it because I started doing research. There's a lot of communities that venerate their ancestors and they're doing well. Hey, look, I'm black. Now I'm a leader African-American, but I ain't never been to Africa. I'm a black man. We as a whole, probably really not doing well. We don't have any wealth to speak of, really. We shun those things. But it seemed to me like the cultures and the people that remember them We are because they were. And no one means you any better than the people that came before you. My grandma over there, my daddy, my uncle, these people love me. They wanted the best for me. If I was hungry, my daddy would feed me. He would buy the shelter for me. He bought the house that we all lived in. So you're going to mean to tell me that my daddy, just because he transitioned, all of a sudden mean warming? That's insane. And to me, it's insane to, you know, maybe you didn't feel like a picture with her around your house. Knowing what I know now, food, always. There's going to be some water, always. And, you know, maybe it'd be a little, you know, liquor or something, too. You know what I'm saying? Always. There's some tequila on my altar right now. You know, like, I'm not a real big fan of tequila. I have bought bottles of alcohol. And if I crack it open for you, I'm not going to drink any of it. It's for them only. I don't, I don't. I know unless it's like, come on, nephew, take a dream with me because I'm a lightweight now.

SPEAKER_01: 36:42

What I really like that you did was you humanize the people that you or the spirits that you're communing with so that anybody that would question who you're really talking to, you know who you're talking to. You love to these people. They lived and loved you. How can we possibly say that that goes away once your body dies? How can we say that? I agree with you 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 37:11

I think that that's just some sort of indoctrination of fear. If I do need help, if I can't help myself, the people that love me and care about me the most usually are going to be your family. Because, I mean, you can have relatives, you can have family. Sometimes they're not the same. If you had love for me in this plane, when you transition, is that love supposed to fade away? I still miss you. Sometimes, you know, I move to tears because I miss our conversation. I miss, you know, maybe the physical touch. I miss being able to pick up the phone and give you a call. I miss being able to be in your presence. I think everybody has a situation where maybe they were missing a loved one or thinking about them and something happened that reminds you of them. They might not be able to show up physically. That takes a ton of energy. But maybe we used to watch the butterflies and all of a sudden the butterflies show up and they ain't even spring. Putting forth that energy to let you know I hear you and I'm here with you. How dare I negate that? I can't. I can't.

SPEAKER_01: 38:19

I love that. Just last night I was laying in bed and I thought my cat came up to snuggle me right behind. Contrary to... our podcast video today, normally she's not one that lets you touch her. So I thought, wow, what is the miracle for her to be snuggling me so cool? Like I'm here for this. So I like reached my hand back to touch her. She wasn't there. I felt somebody come up and snuggle me. And then I felt the arm go around. Dang, Luna, your tail's getting long. And then... And then immediately I had this memory of this person who passed away before the 2000s. And I thought, thank you for holding me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00: 38:58

I was going through it. Like, I mean, going through it. This was 2010 or so. My father had already passed away. We used to have these deep conversations and he would give me direction. And I remember thinking before I went to sleep, my mind was in turmoil. I don't know how I'm going to rest. I wish I could talk to my daddy. I got a little emotional. So I rolled over and I finally went to sleep. My daddy literally came to me in a dream that night. We sat down in what looked like a void. He gave me a hug and he was like, let's take a walk. You know, so we did. We walked and we talked. And I woke up that morning full of energy and clarity and like, thank you, daddy. You know, I appreciate you coming through for me. I needed it. I mean, I needed it. Power through that wisdom. And I was like, you know what? That's right. He's going to work out. This is going to be just fine. And it worked out just like that. But look at the amount of energy that my daddy probably had to expend to get to me like that. Yeah, my ancestors been offering this stuff every single day. Don't even worry about it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:04

That's it. You've convinced me. They deserve something to let them know that I remember them and that they meant something to me. Something Tangible. I know our thoughts are powerful, but something tangible. And you know what? I like what you said about the tequila. I never opened that bottle before. It's for them. I

SPEAKER_00: 40:29

like that. Sometimes they're like, somebody wanted some liquor. I'm like, you know what? Let me get this right here for you. And then I saw a man there with a can too. I'm like, come on, nephew, drink with us. I'm like, no, no, no. They're like, oh, so you're just going to let me drink alone? This is like the lyric, yo, you're just going to let me drink alone? How you going to do me like that? I'm like, you know what, man, I ain't got nothing to do. I ain't going out or nothing. If I do, I can call a lift or whatever. Man, I'll toss one back with you. Man, I'm over here like, yo, this stuff is on fire. Then, like, the amount of laughter that hit my ears. Oh, yo, look at me.

SPEAKER_01: 41:07

I love it. My... Native American side of my family can't process liquor, right? Because they're indigenous Americans. So and the other half were Dunkard Brethrens, which is like two steps away from Amish. So I'm leaving tequila for the one guy that drank. I know there's got to be somebody. Would you leave us some words while we're all on? our individual and unique spiritual journeys.

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

You're not on this earth alone, even if you feel alone. Even if you feel like the whole world doesn't see you or the whole world is against you, the world isn't against you, and we do see you. Be present. There's a tribe for every single person. Whether you're part of the magical community, whether you're investigating magic, or whether you just study and read on magic, or you find yourself in a church or some denomination, you are loved, you are seen, and you are heard. There's a tribe of people that's looking for you. I might be part of that tribe. You might be part of mine. But never feel that you're alone in this. Do your own research. Find what works and what resonates with you, because that's the only thing that matters. And for those of you that are on the search for truth, There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I applaud you in it, but I'm going to tell you what Dr. Albert Blair said, and I take it as truth, and I take it as life, and I take it as spirit. There's no such thing as truth until you decide what truth is for yourself. When you get that, be guided by it, let it lead you. When the time comes, you profess it, and you lead others to know that the truth is what they find to be true for themselves. That's where you get your power. That's where you find your strength. And even if you are supposedly standing alone, that's where you find your tribe. Because none of us are alone. Absolutely none of us.

SPEAKER_01: 43:27

Thank you so much, Son of Thunder, for joining us today and sharing your experiences and your words of wisdom. And we wish you all the best in your continued search. Yes, it was absolutely wonderful having you here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 43:46

The pleasure has been mine. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 43:53

Thank you so much for joining us today. Don't let the mystical magic stop here. Please check out Past Lives Cafe podcast hosted by Keone, where we talk about all things past lives, including amazing stories, healing experiences, and truly inspirational insights. Thank you for joining the Mystical Mermaid Lounge podcast. constructive, and positive feedback are always welcome. Drop us some fan mail at mysticalmermaidelounge at buzzsprout.com or email us directly at mysticalmermaidelounge at yahoo.com Finally, we do not accept sponsorships or ads so that we may bring a less distracting message to our listeners. So, if you are just as passionate as we are about educating and supporting spiritual seekers then please brew some tea or joe and pour us a cup at buymeacoffee.com forward slash mystical mermaid lounge thanks again and catch us at the next high tide bye