Sacred Containers, Real Transformation

What if the most profound spiritual work isn’t about learning more, but about being held better? We sit down with priestess and author Elyse Welles to explore the living architecture of spiritual containers—closed, intentional spaces designed for trust, transformation, and the kind of sisterhood that lets people bloom. Elyse shares how she plans by listening to sacred land, channels curriculum in trance, and sets clear boundaries so participants feel safe to be brave. The result isn’t just knowledge; it’s a cellular shift you can feel, a web of relationships that keeps humming long after the closing circle.

Details

We get candid about what separates a true container from a workshop: devotion, presence, and ethical space holding. Elyse explains why she travels to oracular sites in Greece, how lineage and landscape shape the work, and why the same program never runs the same way twice. We talk about the power of closed groups, the surprising depth of online circles, and the importance of addressing real-world pain without spiritual bypassing. From veterans and civil servants seeking steady ground to seekers who “just knew” they had to join, these stories show how intention calls the right people at the right time.

If you’ve ever wondered whether remote ritual can be sacred, how pricing intersects with commitment, or what qualities make a trustworthy facilitator, you’ll find practical insight and heart-forward clarity here. Most of all, you’ll hear an invitation to name the community you need and let it find you. If you felt the tug while listening, follow it—your next chapter may already be knocking.

Enjoyed the conversation? Subscribe, share with a friend who needs community, and leave us a quick review—it truly helps more seekers find their way to this circle.

Contact

Website: Seeking Numina

Facebook: Seeking Numina

YouTube: Seeking Numina Podcast

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome & Host Intros
• 1:22 Guest Bio: Elise Wells
• 3:30 Defining Spiritual Containers
• 6:00 Planning Through Pilgrimage
• 6:35 Containers vs Workshops
• 8:15 Trust, Service, and Boundaries
• 10:05 The Bond and Inner Change
• 12:23 Calling In the Right People
• 15:45 Sisterhood, Safety, and Support
• 18:30 Space for Men and All Genders
• 22:40 Online Depth, Real-World Feel
• 25:45 Ongoing Community & Chats
• 27:40 Energetic Shifts: Catherine’s Story
• 32:30 Cellular Change and Telepathy
• 35:50 What Makes a Good Facilitator
• 39:50 Channeling and Course Design
• 44:40 Repeating Containers & Bypassing
• 48:00 Holding Politics with Care
• 53:20 Safety, Truth, and Leadership
• 57:20 Who Containers Attract
• 1:00:40 Veterans, Service, and Hope

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:07

Welcome to the Mystical Mermaid Lounge Podcast, a space where all spiritual seekers are honored and celebrated. This podcast was born from the journeys of your hosts, who have each faced her own dark night at this home, but they've emerged with an unshakable belief in divine connection, cosmic inspiration, and her true life's calling. Join us on a journey of personal growth, transformation, and magical self-discovery. Your first co-host is Chloe Brown, a gifted intuitive empath and shadow work life coach. Your second co-host is Keoni Starr, an intuitive energy worker, an acclaimed past life regressionist. The Mystical Mermaid Lounge podcast starts now. We are incredibly happy to introduce Elise Wells again. We had to have her back on to discuss some things that are pretty close to our hearts, considering our podcast is for spiritual seekers looking to continue their spiritual journey, which Elise has been absolutely foremost in helping us do the same. For those of you who don't know, I'll give you Elise's background. She is initiated in the eclectic fairy tradition and holds a MA with a focus in spiritual studies. Elise is the only native Greek Egyptian priestess teaching the lost earth princess arts of the Mediterranean. She hosts the Magic Kitchen Podcast, a top 20 show in the U.S., as well as Seeking Numena, the Sacred Places podcast, and the Cosmic Theater Mystery School, an exploration of the liminal space between the worlds of paranormal investigation and spirituality. Elise is also an author, featured in several anthologies. Her first book, which I can't wait to read, Sacred Wild, An Invitation to Connect with Spirits of the Land, releases with Llewellyn, November 2025, and her witchy paranormal mystery novel, What the Water Remembers, releases September 2025. She writes for Witchology, Witch Way magazine, and is the Greece correspondent for the Wild Hunt. She has spoken at several conferences, including Hecate Fest and the Water Priestess Confluence. She runs Seeking Numena, facilitating immersive pilgrimage to Greece's sacred sites and teaches the path of the sacred wild online. Visit SeekingNumina.com and at Seeking Numina on Instagram for more information. And that does not even cover all of the value and expertise and skills that Elise brings. Thank you, Elise, for joining us again and talking with us about spiritual containers.

SPEAKER_02: 3:37

Oh, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It is one of my favorite things in the world because spiritual containers changed my life. So I'm really excited to share the magic of them today with everybody.

SPEAKER_01: 3:48

And I think the reason we thought of you specifically for this, other than you have a long history of excellence in teaching, especially with your teaching background. And I think a lot of times people misunderstand what teaching from a witchcraft standpoint can actually dovetail quite nicely, if not symbiotically, with spirituality, which is why we're super excited to talk with you about that confluence today.

SPEAKER_00: 4:21

Well, thank you so much for being here. I'm very, very, very excited. And containers have changed our lives. And I'll just leave it at the back.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

They have.

SPEAKER_02: 5:49

So I always travel to a sacred place before a container to plan it or to connect to it. Even if I already have it planned, I might go there just to commune and get the lands kind of input on things. For my most recent container, Sacred Wild Priestess, I actually did a road trip through Greece where I live. I lived there exclusively for five years, and now I go between there and the United States. And I visited new places. I visited Oracle sites. So Sacred Wild Priestess was an engagement with the lost Earth Priestess arts. And so I needed to go to where those earth priestesses were. Where were they? And I needed to ask the land, what were they doing? Because for the land, it was five minutes ago. It remembers. Oh, good, you're back. That's all if the land feels. We're the ones who feel the loss of it over 2,000 in some years. It's a deep, deep responsibility to hold a container. And you have to be ready to do that. Whereas a workshop, you can plan and know what you're going to teach. And you can just show up and teach it. And maybe you're having a bad day, but that's okay. And you might not know any of the students there until you show up in the room. Whereas a container, I would say 50 to 80% of the time, people who sign up to my containers only come through after either having had a call with me or having been in something less formal, like a workshop or a festival that I've spoken at or a summit or a conference or something. They come into a container because they trust me. You know, I talked about that last time I was on the show. Perfect love and perfect trust. That is my foundation for my spiritual practice. That is how I show up. That's the core tenant of witchcraft. And it's the core tenant of how I need to live my life, is with that dedication and it's devotion. When you're the priestess path is one of service. And so running a container is about being in service to those students for that duration and also keeping it closed. We can't just let people come and go. Maybe somebody joins and they say up front, I'm probably going to not be able to attend live every week. That's okay. They're coming into the container with parameters that are personal for them. And that's always important to know, you know, know where you're at when you join a container. But as far as being a part of it, that's the people who begin it are the people who end it. And that's that's how it works. It's contained.

SPEAKER_00: 8:06

I think there's definitely an energy that you did speak of already, but also it creates and facilitates, I think is the word I'm looking for, a bond, regardless of how the people they trust going in, they'll walk out a totally different person. And not only is it about the subject you're teaching from my experience, I learned so much about myself, so much about the subject at hand. I really was able to walk in all coping mechanisms down and really be able to recognize and meet people where they were and love them for it. And that in itself changed me on top of the entire subject of the container. So I love that this is something we're talking about because these are things somebody like myself at least didn't think about going into it. I just thought about the finance, the time restraints, and my obligations. So thank you for speaking to that. Cause for me, I think that was the most powerful thing, actually. It's the energy inside and the people that created that, of course.

SPEAKER_01: 9:23

Yeah, I think at least you're being so honest about the different places that you go to get into that frequency or vibration that you want to then resonate throughout the container speaks very highly to your process. Is that part of your process to say, this is the energy, not only of the information I want to convey, but that spiritual connection I want my people in this container to have together?

SPEAKER_02: 9:53

Yeah, I guess so. I send out the intention of who am I calling in for this container? You know, even if I've ran it before, who's what's different this time about it? I think that's the other thing. It's never the same. Some people will say, Oh, I'm feeling really cold. I can't get it off my mind that I'm supposed to be there. But all the logic things that you mentioned, Chloe, like, oh, it's expensive. Oh, but what if I have this? What if, what if, what if? Oh, my time, oh, my energy. Those are the only two things we have in this life is time and energy. And we have to really commit. Like containers are a commitment. You can buy a workshop ticket and then decide on the day of are you showing up or not. A container is something you join consciously and with intention. And so I always set that intention to the universe. Bring people in with that level of dedication and commitment. Bring people in who feel like maybe they have never experienced sisterhood before and they're ready to try it out. My containers are open for all genders most of the time. Sacred Wild Priestess this year definitely was open to those on the priestess path and the priestex path. So non-binary people, anybody who feels called to the priestess path, they're welcome. And witchcodes, red thread, these are open gender experiences. But I still use the word sisterhood because never sisterhood, C-I-S to her, but sisterhood, because brotherhood isn't the same thing. Siblinghood doesn't quite exist, but sisterhood implies we are going through a unique experience, only each other knows about it. When you're in a container, no one's going to understand what that's like except those in the container. It could feel isolating without that sisterhood. Like going through the journey of a self-paced course can sometimes be detrimental to a path because what if it stirs up shadows? How do you share that with somebody? How do you process that if there's no one to process it with who's going through it? So the sisterhood aspect of going through it together is an important benefit and something I call in people who are ready for it, even if they're terrified of it, like I was. My first container, I was literally like, BS, not possible. I do not get along with women. It's never gonna work. They've never liked me, they don't trust me. I can't trust them. Like boys have hurt me, men have hurt me, but women are so mean sometimes. It's a different level and it's really scary. And so I was terrified of my first container, but my guys were like, you just have to trust in this calling. And if I hadn't, I wouldn't be who I am today. They are lifelong transformations. It can be an eight-week container, it will transform the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00: 12:29

I love how candid you were about that. It feels like women in general are like, I'm a woman's woman, or ooh, I'm terrified. And that's not a subject people talk about. It speaks to the safe environment in these containers that you provide for us.

SPEAKER_01: 12:48

I was just recently doing energy work on a man who lived in a city right outside of Philadelphia. And he had a lot of really amazing spiritual questions about just very existential level questions and those light topics. I could talk to people about that is what interests me. Any way that we can find our own power and divinity to continue to connect with each other, with the divine. But he said, How come all of you women keep going to these women-only sessions? And we guys have nowhere to go. Maybe people of his generation of his culture to get together to have a real deep spiritual conversation and engagement when that's not culturally what is acceptable or expected. So when you were talking about the pre-stex path, it made me think there are a few groups of people that do feel disenfranchised from this process that we are, as females, very fortunate to have. What would you say to these men who are really looking for a place to connect, but we're trying to preserve sisterhood?

SPEAKER_02: 14:16

I think they should start one. Because that's the sad thing, right? I can't. I'm a woman. I am she her. I can't go start it for him. He needs to start it. They're actually in Haverty Grace, an artist there who he identifies as he, him, but he also had it open for non-binary, like mask presenting people. He was running it at Haven, actually. His name's Davey. You might know him from the universe. He's a sweet guy. And I met him at a poetry slam actually. And he used to run a men's support group to have an open conversation on emotions and spirit, and particularly relationships, like how to show up more authentically in their emotions within relationships of all kinds, not just romantic ones, but with your parents, with your work. The only reason he stopped doing it is because people actually stopped showing up. He had a group of four, and then it was three, and then it was four, and then it was two, and then it was three months in a row of nobody. And so I think that's the other thing I'd say is start one. You don't have to have any expertise to start a facilitated group when you're up front. That's what it is. And maybe it's not a container. Maybe it is having that up front that this is a co-created space. You don't have to have experience if you're honest with people. It would be wrong to be like, oh, I've done this a million times, but you haven't. But if you're like, oh, I'm learning too, but I want to do this thing and no one else has started it, do it. And the intersectionality that you mentioned of being of color, actually, my undergrad thesis was on black feminism and like the intersectionality of feminism with women of color in the US. That is deeply, deeply in my heart at all times. Like the importance of those more niche spaces and how sometimes people are like, oh, that's not very inclusive. The world is inclusive in that way. They need something outside of that to process shared experiences.

SPEAKER_01: 15:57

Agreed. He did actually say maybe I should start one, but I think the reality of how am I going to go out and get a bunch of dudes to come do this, he was like, Well, can I just join when it's women's night? And I said, I'm sorry, you you just can't. And he said, Why? And we were talking about women need a safe space to process the way they feel.

SPEAKER_02: 16:19

I think the same can be true too, though, where like maybe there is a space he can join that is all genders, and that'll be a place to explore. Last year, which codes I knew was gonna be women. I just knew it. Women and non-binary and femme presenting non-binary people. And this year, I keep really getting the download that it needs to be all genders. And it's like clockwork the way the universe supports these things. When we are called to the path and we say, Okay, yes, I hear you, it starts putting people in your way. So I actually already have two men on the wait list for witch codes. So if anybody, I don't know. So if anybody is just a huge fan of that. Yeah, and because witchcraft also is traditionally multi-gendered covens. In fact, it's almost unusual to find a woman-only coven. Not only was like modern witchcraft founded by men, but also witchcraft covens are traditionally, like now we're in a different era, we're talking a hundred years ago, but traditionally you would have a circle where it's man, woman, man, woman, man, woman, man, woman. So, of course, now we have non-binary people, we have more awareness of diversity. But back then that was how circle was meant to quote unquote to go. So Dianic witchcraft was revolutionary in the 70s to say, actually, we want only women here. So we have it really kind of backwards in the modern era because we kind of forget that that it's just it's a pendulum swinging, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 17:38

I did want to add, I think that's really interesting to hear that perspective because interestingly enough, for me, when and I've spoken to this in previous episodes, so I won't go too deep. There's a lot of Norse men groups in my area. That's the thing. Yeah. And I think the other big group oh gosh, I could be wrong. I think they call themselves heathens. But regardless, I kept finding all of these men only. It's interesting to hear that perspective. And since the container, actually, there was one specific conversation that really opened my heart and broke it in a lot of ways regarding this topic. And since then, I I think I pay attention more, which is why I notice it. But specifically on threads, and for all of our listeners, any male out there who has this curiosity, there's a massive, massive amount of very spiritual males and non-binary that have a foundation of knowledge that are leading these types of things. And I know that that's different because it's different when you can do it in person. But at least for me, I haven't been able to do that stuff in person. So all of my experiences have been remote and have changed me this significantly. So I just wanted to put that out there for our listeners that if you are looking, I think it's like hashtag witch threads or something like that, there's a lot out there. And I love that you said start it, do it. Then you can be the change, and that's what we all need.

SPEAKER_02: 19:18

Well, yeah, we started the Magic Kitchen podcast just before COVID, Christmas 2019. So really just before. We had no idea how important it could become for people to feel seen in a virtual reality, depending on how you engage online. I think that's why I like podcasts, is they're real, there's no script, they're longer forms. It would be exhausting to try to put a persona on. Whereas a thread or an Instagram, you can play with how you're perceived. So there's a place for both of those things in the world for sure, but but anyway, I completely agree. All my containers I've been in as well have been online and they've completely changed my life. And sometimes you do meet people in person. Like Sacred Wild Priestess, this year I'm experimenting with doing an in-person initiation at the end at the riverside in Haverty Grace. I could go on and on about Haverty Grace, but hella sacred. I do think there's there's a little bit of both sometimes, which is really nice. I do immersive retreats in Greece, which of course are in person. And so the both is good, but the online, so many people avoid it because they think, how can it be good? Find out, just go find out because you'll be shocked.

SPEAKER_01: 20:24

Yeah, there's something to be said about being in person, but you'd be very surprised at how much information and especially with Elise's containers, because she always builds in or it appears that you build in digestion times for people to get together afterwards and talk through it. So it's not just a one-and-done thing. You're also very good at keeping a chat group open so that people can keep the conversation going as well. So, how can you do those things if you're in person? You don't have that readily available way to contact people, which I think is important.

SPEAKER_00: 21:06

Yes, it does become very real. I think Elise is amazing at making her container environment so real that it actually feels like I'm going to my friends' house to do this in person. That is a very accurate statement.

SPEAKER_02: 21:21

Thank you. I that's exactly what I put out. That's the intention I put out. Every single container, let this feel real. And that's why I'm always like, hey, turn the cameras on. If you're in class, you're there. It's not like you can pretend if you were in person, you can't be covering your face. Like you would be there, visible. So it's the same thing. And yeah, the chats are I brag that I have never ran a container, that the group chat ain't still going. They always continue forever. And even my retreat I hosted in April this year for Delphi, as of recording this, it's been almost three months since it. It is nonstop in there. And they actually have monthly Zoom calls. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 22:02

That is a perfect way to segue to the next thing I wanted to talk about, which is speaking to the energetic shifts and patterns and different amazing things that you've witnessed with the people that have come together. Because it's more than just you're putting out that intention. People are putting out the intention to find you as well. So, outside of this ongoing communication, what else have you noticed with people's spirituality journeys? Oh, that's such a good question.

SPEAKER_02: 22:37

Instantly, one person came to mind who has been on your show, Catherine. When I think of who Catherine was, I had a discovery call with her a couple weeks before Witch Codes 2024, and where we all met Catherine. And it was the first time she had ever spoken to a witch. Not on a text thread, the first time face-to-face on a Zoom call. That was the first time she'd really had a conversation with a witch one-on-one about her practice. Certain people have an aura that begins to shift as they open up. Everybody does. For me, it's something I can't really put into words, but when I think of what her energy was like, just these little shields she had up, even though she was doing her best to be as open as she could. It was, we just met. We just met. And when I think of who she is now, she actually came to Delphi with me. And now she's in Sacred Wild Priestess as well. And the way she has just opened with these oracles I've been traveling to, a lot of them are unexcavated, or they were only excavated briefly over a hundred years ago. So these are places that the wild has reclaimed. And we were at one of them. I took my retreat to one, and we were the first priestesses there in literally over 2,000 years. There's no other, that's a fact. Incredible. And we were standing over this vista, and she was looking out and she just goes, Oh, look, there's the wind spirits. There's a breeze coming. And then a couple minutes later, the breeze came. And she's just so gifted. She's so gifted. And she had the confidence offhand to just say, Oh, look, there's the wind spirits. The Catherine I had that Zoom call with less than a year prior would have never said that she saw them, much less so casually, so candidly. And then we've been talking since Greece activated so many amazing things about her lineage healing that she's here to do. I won't go into it. It's her personal thing. It's amazing. It's so amazing what her path is right now. And it's such hard work. It's so hard. And she's just so confident the way she's approaching it. And it was the container that allowed that flourishing to seed and begin.

SPEAKER_00: 24:48

Oh, it just gives me goosebumps everywhere. As you're talking about that, I'm literally tearing up going through that container with Catherine. I felt it. It was like she was this big, beautiful pond lily standing up and above the pond, but so tightly wrapped, she just wasn't ready to flourish yet. And now, oh God, that just gave me full body chills. And now just her energy. I haven't been able to talk to her in the last week or two, but even without even having to have the conversation with her, I can just feel her energy as this big, stunning, beautiful flower and energy. And so as you're saying that, I could just feel my whole body just shaking and crying with you. So sorry, I got a little emotional, but me too.

SPEAKER_02: 25:35

That was a great example. That's it. That's what a container does in its highest form and it's in its best form, is it gives you that permission to bloom.

SPEAKER_01: 25:44

Absolutely. Anybody that wants to go back and listen to that episode will put that number and the name of the episode in the show notes. But she had been through amazing transformation on her own, that just when you're brought up in a strict, any sort of strict environment, whether it's religious, whether it's political, whether it's cultural, all of the above. To be able to question and then take those steps on your own to separate shows incredible strength. I'm just amazed. And she's such a gentle soul. That's what amazes me. I think she's just probably one of the kindest, most decent, just thoughtful people I've ever met. And I love that example of her just blooming because she even talks about as a baby when she was fussing, being inside, she just needed to be outside. And I can totally see where she's been seeing these things and feeling those energies all along, which is probably what gave her this strength also to take a step back and ask what this means for her. Because at the end of the day, her culture was oppressing her.

SPEAKER_02: 27:01

Yeah. Oh, and I want to point to something Chloe said too about how you can feel her. You haven't spoken to her in a little while, but you can feel her. That is what a container does. These connections are built between the people in them. Like my first container I was in, we all were connected because that's how it works. But there was a couple women that in particular, there was just like maybe a soul-family connection. I don't know how else to put it into words. Like, I think we've lived lives together in other ways. And you will feel them without needing to message them. It's telepathy in its highest form. And people can roll their eyes about telepathy, but animals do it all the time. All the time. Why do we think we're different? We're animals. Somebody said that to me. They were like, I don't know what I got out of this container. I can't put it into words. I just feel better. I feel this. I feel that. And I said, Yeah, because you had a cellular shift. You don't need words. Words are new. It's like when we say, Oh, I know these things, but I haven't read a book about it. Reading is new. We just learned how to read as a species, especially as a gender. Recently, to have books, that is a recent novelty. We learned orally, we learned through channeling. We learned through experiencing. Like we question so much of our knowledge because we use these narrow little modern human lenses. And no, we feel it. Our cells change when we experience. And those relationships are key, so key in how that kind of proves itself is that web of connection.

SPEAKER_01: 28:28

Absolutely. And I think the type of individual that makes for a good space holder in a container is worth talking about. You hit the jackpot when we all came to your Witch Codes container, Elise, but not everybody can be like us.

SPEAKER_02: 28:47

To be a good spaceholder for a container, I think you need to be somebody who has the time and energy to devote to your students. I have been in containers where that doesn't happen. Just know this. If you're out there and you're like, oh, I should do one, I think I could make a lot of money doing it, or oh, I think I could do that, and I could just do one a year. And whatever your whim is about it, know that if you are not dedicating your full time and energy to those students, you are doing them a disservice that can actually negatively affect their spiritual path. Because I was in a container where it was only 14 weeks and she took five weeks off during it. Yeah. And it was very expensive. It was very expensive. It was over twice what I charge for mine. And she never apologized. She just was, this is fine. And then kept like moving dates and then like never gave us the documentation that was part of the course. It was awful. I'm an experienced practitioner at this point. Like I didn't take it personally, but a couple of the women did. I ended up taking the role of like, guys, this isn't normal. It's not you. It is 100% the facilitator. They were like, oh my gosh, are we a bad student group? Is that why she's not showing up? It was so sad. It was awful. The only good thing about it was like it showed me exactly what not to do. A couple of these women and I are very close now. Because of it. What a shared, awful experience. If you don't have time and energy, do not run a container. Oh my goodness. I think about this all the time. I love doing what I do, but if I ever decide to have a child, I genuinely fear not being able to hold the space for both because I love doing it so much, it would crush my soul to not be able to hold the space properly. So I think because I don't want to so bad, like I will not have that problem. If you're going through a major, major life transition, it might not be the best time. If that container is going to happen over the six weeks before you have a baby and then the six weeks after, for example, not a great timing, most likely. And trust your guides on that. And that's the other thing. If you're running a spiritual container, you have to have a very good relationship with your guides, whoever that is for you. They will co-create this with you. And more than likely, I don't know if this is true for every spiritual container, but it's gonna be channeled. It's gonna be unique to you. Somebody said to me, they were like, Why don't you use ChatGPT to help you write your courses? Like it must be so much. Like, how do you do that and this and that and this? And I said, It's channeled. I can't use Chat GPT to write my course. It is a channeled experience for people and for me as well. I have no idea. Like when I was putting together red thread, I went to French Creek State Park in Pennsylvania over the winter. It was a very, very fallow time of year. And completely different things than I had thought was going to be in this course came through in the trances I was doing there. I did three days and three nights over the full moon of trance with limited exception. Like I brought enough food that I could just eat to stay on this planet. I was kind of fasting in a spiritually intentional way and drinking a lot of water and you know, very healthy, but I was really just focused on what I was doing. I wanted no distraction from it. And Freya ended up coming through and she started sharing these things with me in the spirit world and on the astral. And while I was there, I realized there's actually a whole temple in the astral that is for these goddesses of the red thread and where they commune. And so I ended up practically rewriting the whole course during those three days because they wanted me to do it differently. So you have to have that perfect love and trust. You have to have trust with your guides that they know what you're meant to be sharing. I do think containers have to be facilitated by somebody who knows that this is their path. It's not something you do on the side with a million other things going on. It has to be your purpose. Maybe there are a couple other things going on, but the focus, the shift of your attention and energy is actually on the container. But as far as your energy and your purpose on this planet, it's a soul contract to be showing up for those students and doing that thing. That sounds so big and bold. That's why I think they're rare. I always am looking for new containers, and I rarely find ones that speak to what I'm doing, what I want to be doing, or what the kind of people I want to be with, because I do think it's so rare to facilitate from that level.

SPEAKER_00: 32:52

So is it safe to say that any one of your containers, if I've taken it once, it doesn't mean that I couldn't take it again, quite frankly. Because it sounds to me that every bit of it not only is so channeled coming from you, but because of the energies everybody brings to it. And I love that you said that because I do work full-time and 50 hours a week of that. Plus, I'm married and I had just bought a home. And so I was concerned I couldn't bring the energy and attention. But as the person taking it, it was so important to remember that I'm there for a purpose and to just give the energy to my purpose of whatever that might bring me. And it sounds like it's almost the exact same for the facilitator as well. I don't think I would have ever understood had you not shared that. Yeah.

unknown: 33:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:45

And also as a participant, like for me, if I join a container, it's so that I can receive. As the facilitator, I'm offering service. So I need some place to then receive as well. So yeah, joining a container when life is crazy can actually sometimes be the best thing you can do because that sisterhood is there to support you. For Sacred Wild Priestess, right now, I have somebody coming in who is just now moving to another country for the first time. They've never lived outside the US and their job is taking them somewhere else. But that was exactly why they signed up because they said, I need to learn how to commune with land so that I can ground in this new place. That's important. And also, yes, 100%. I'm actually gonna offer, I didn't tell you guys this, but I'm gonna offer anybody who wants to do a container again, if they've done it once, 50% off. 50% off because it will be a little different. It just by nature, it's going to be. Like when we did witch codes, that was right after the election. How different was that? That's hopefully never gonna be the case again, where we have to be in a space quite like that energetically as a country. So that always comes into it too. Like I think that's a whole other conversation, but spiritual bypassing where people think join a spiritual thing so that you don't have to know anything about the world around you. Nah, that will catch up with you. That's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01: 35:08

I'm totally with you on that. I think the point of it is for all of us to be here to allow community and each other's spirits to help us process and heal through if it's painful, which it was for many of us, that reality or challenging, or even just not knowing what to expect. So I agree. Spiritual bypassing is a very big topic nowadays, and it seems to mean a lot of things for a lot of people. But at the end of the day, if you're not allowing yourself to process something by clinging to some label or standard that's impossible for a human to get to and hold naturally, I think it's bypassing.

unknown: 35:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:55

We were all in Elise's Witch Codes container together. So, yes, and we all still do contact each other constantly. We still see each other. It was an interesting time period because we have people from all different parts of the country with presumably different political affiliations. You just don't know. And we all just tended to have very much of the same mindset. So we were able to help each other's kind of heal through that process and hold each other up when different things keep coming up. So I was personally glad to be part of that and that you opened the door for that discussion, Elise, because a lot of times people don't want to go there because it can be divisive. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02: 36:45

Yeah, no, it's that priestess of ananna thing I've got going on. At the end of the day, we have to move through them. You know, we have to let them be moved through us. We have to acknowledge them if they're there in our shadows. Yeah. I think about that all the time. What's really interesting is we were originally supposed to meet on Tuesdays, and in the end it was Wednesdays. So we started the day after the election instead of the night of. And that was very important in the end. Very important.

SPEAKER_01: 37:12

It was, and I think that recognition that you were so hurt. It was, it would, you were more than angry. You were hurt, and then you kind of rallied. Like you could see how you were shifting and processing. Okay, how am I going to be able to be in this world and function as who I want to be, knowing that we have no idea the onslaught of challenges we're probably going to be facing. And to watch you do that in front of all of us gave us permission to do that as well. And it really did open up honest conversations where at least you probably saw them. One of our participants sent links, wondering what that means for their jobs. Other people saying, I come from a culture where people were white Christian nationalists. This is what we believed. And I got to ask somebody who understood the white Christian nationalist viewpoint, where did you guys come up with this? Because how many times can you walk up and say, anybody here white Christian nationalists? Could you kind of tell me what where you came up with this crap? You know, and these people were willing to share and educate us on why they believe what they believe. And if you hadn't been honest about that, Elise, and allowed us to see you be honest with those emotions, we would have never opened up that conversation. We would have waited for someone to just drop the hint about the awful carrot in office or the chief doodlehead or whatever people are calling him. I won't say what people are typically calling him, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 38:50

Don't want to have to put that explicit label on anything.

SPEAKER_00: 38:54

I do think everybody would have avoided the elephant in the room had we not seen how it physically affected not only everybody, but you were the one who addressed it. And as somebody who usually never talks politics, religion, money, the grand three with most people, that was pretty powerful. And I think that Keone said it so well, that created such a trusting environment and safe space to meet everybody where they are, whether they agree or disagree, was never brought up, addressed, or part of the topic, because that wasn't the part of it. What was addressed was how can we support each other, not hey, this is what's going on, because you could turn on the news. We didn't need somebody to tell us that. So I am grateful that you were able to keep it PC in the most unpolitically correct environment.

SPEAKER_02: 39:55

Thank you. Yeah, I think it's also like how are we gonna it's funny you call it the big three because that's like all I ever really feel like I talk about with people is like obviously religion, spirituality, and politics in endemically, because I don't think you can be a witch or be part of a marginalized spiritual practice without caring for the marginalized and speaking out against those things. Also, like good luck having a nature-based spirituality and not caring about nature. It has to be political in the end. It has to be. So I think I tend to only attract people that are going to, you're not gonna sign up for one of my containers and be like, oh, I use Roundup. That's good. Like it's not gonna happen. Like it just, it's just not gonna happen. If they listen to even five minutes of my podcasts, like you're gonna know how I feel about certain things. And I think that's important too, is we are in containers to learn how to raise energy, how to direct energy, how to know what energy is. How are we gonna do that if we're trying to close off a really important energy of, oh my God, am I gonna lose my job? Oh my god, is everyone I know gonna get deported? Oh my god, is it how are we gonna do anything if that energy is just buzzing around stagnantly and painfully in our bodies and in our energy fields? That's not gonna work. So I think that's the other reason spiritual bypassing comes back to bite people. A container has to be a safe space. And it's a facilitator's job to read that room and read that energy and know what's going to make people feel safe to express. And a lot of that's gonna be expressing first, stepping forward. I was always that person. I have so many stories I could tell you about being the kid who was like, that doesn't make any sense. Raising hand in Sunday school or raising hand in regular school, just asking the question the teacher just really hopes no one's gonna pick up on, or standing up for somebody when everyone else just wants to keep moving forward. But that kid, someone said something really mean, and I'm not gonna just let us keep going. I'm gonna go back and make sure they're okay. It's leadership, I guess. It's it's deep service.

SPEAKER_01: 41:50

Do you remember? I think it was maybe two or three weeks after the election, one of the container participants was just crying and crying and saying it just suddenly hit them. How I don't even think painful touches how they felt at the time. And because we were all reacting this early the day after the election. And this one individual, true to themselves, takes time to process. And I loved that they felt so comfortable two weeks later, maybe, to just come back and say, I think I've just let it finally all sink in. And we talk so much about caring for each other or if we're in a service space. And this is why I really love what you do too, Elise. We care so much. We can be energy workers, we can work with chakras, we can try to use spiritual guidance to heal bodies, to heal psyches, but no one addresses our spirits. And it's an important part of who we are. And you're absolutely right. When things are out there buzzing around that we feel so viscerally painful about, I think we're missing a major portion of our wellness. If this initiatory course, the the high priestess path, is teaching people how to use energy to the highest level in a specific lineage and how to connect all of these different areas, we would be remiss to miss our spirits. Yeah, as part of that process. Holistic integration. Absolutely. But guaranteed nobody quite looks at it that way. But that's what Elise offers. So, what has surprised you most about all of these containers? Because you mentioned you've done the more short self-directed courses, self-guided, or putting videos out there for people to learn at their own pace, and you've done these major containers with awesome groups of people. What has been your most surprising moments, or maybe patterns that you've recognized that you just didn't expect?

SPEAKER_02: 44:17

I think something I didn't expect was I guess I was always the one who in the group project did all the work, or everybody's like, oh, I don't know, and you're like, Well, we could do this. Oh, yeah, okay. And then sometimes like people would take your idea or they would just not give you credit for it, and like no one would remember you were the one who said that. So I was a little worried. Yeah, I also taught high school for five years, so I saw it play out in those plays as well as the other side of it, not just as the student, as the teacher. I was just worried that people might feel that way, that might happen. And I was very surprised that that did not happen. I really just I do not call in people who are there to, for lack of a better word, leech off of others. I call in people who are there to do the work for themselves. And I think that's also like part of the investment piece that I didn't understand at first either when I was looking at containers and looking at pricing. And then I worked with a business container and they also went over why investments are high for containers, and it finally clicked because they're investing in themselves. These are investments in the class, in the experience. That's what it does, is it it helps people really be invested and be committed for showing up there? I've seen it go the other way as well. I've been in containers that were really, really expensive, and then like there is no investment because the only people in there are really super rich people. I wasn't in this one, but a friend was in one that was$70,000. Yeah, yep. And so it was all heiresses, they were all heiresses from like different countries and business empire daughters and things like that. And so no one was invested at all. That's another thing that that I think can actually happen with high investment. And I would never, yeah, come for me if I charged that for an eight-week course. But actually, that was not even an eight-week course unless inflation hits some crazy like yen situation. Yeah, crazy, absolutely insane. And it was bad. There was no engagement from the facilitator. I think finding that sweet spot of what's an investment that is fair to me as the facilitator, and also for the people that are coming in to be the type of people that can afford it, but also it's an investment and also it's an acknowledgement of time and energy. It's just a lot of calling in, a lot of calling in all the time. It's worked so far, knock on wood, that I really do not have that like group project dynamic of bystanders. There's people who join with a certain level of commitment or shyness, or that's different. That's great. You know what you're there for, you know how you're there to show up. Really, I've just been so pleasantly surprised by how much people lift each other up, the tandem effect of it.

SPEAKER_01: 46:56

Have you seen shifts in the types of people taking your containers or shifts in the way that you've approached your students?

SPEAKER_02: 47:06

Yeah, I think the biggest shift has been narrowing down the ideal client. Yeah. Like the people I really am here to serve the most. Part of it's doing its work for me, who I call in, ends up being like that. And then there's other things similar about them. So, like veterans of our country, I tend to have a lot of them in my programs. I also tend to have a lot of civil servants. People that are in service come to me to receive. And I really love that. That means a lot to me to get to hold space for the people who really need it the most, the people who are living their lives in service to others. This is what I can do in service to you, in service to others. Honestly, that's been my favorite pattern. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01: 47:54

I think the service I am not as surprised by, but the veteran groups that surprises me.

SPEAKER_02: 48:02

Yeah, it's like probably 10%, 15%. It's the most common single job of the people who come to me, which is really cool. Why do you think that is? I think it's Inana's cheekiness because she is a goddess of love and war. Even when I was in high school, like I was part of the Arab Spring. Like I was in high school in Bahrain during that. Like they had to escort us out of different things. We had to cancel school. I was in the mall and it got stormed by revolutionaries. And I have always kept my cool. I'm just good in those situations. I don't panic at the things that most people would really lose their stuff over. I have a deep empathy with people who have gone through deep traumas that I just I'm not gonna pity them because I know nobody wants that, but I'm gonna be able to hold this and move forward from it. And I also think Nana, she always calls me to be part of the war zones. Like, why in the world would she call me to start spending more time in the US right when the orange Cheeto is back in office? I'm here to fight. Like I want to be in the States and be part of the change and be part of helping people keep their cool through what feels devastating. Like I can always have one foot in Europe, one foot in the states, and that gives me perspective that can be very hard for Americans who stay in America all the time, all their lives, to maintain. Like it feels much more serious. It's very serious, but the world has gone through these cycles before. Europe remembers them acutely. World War II feels like yesterday for Europeans. And so I have that awareness too. And so I just, I just I don't lose hope easily. Let me put it that way. I don't lose hope easily. And so I think that's why people find me who need to remember hope.

SPEAKER_00: 49:44

It seems so clear to me why you would have that demographic, that occupation as the most reoccurring single occupation. As a female veteran, there's so much you can't control. There's so much chaos, there's so much all of the things that you think of when you think of veteran or military. And I think for me, there's a huge number of veterans who recognize and I fuck this shit. I don't want to deal with people. All I can do to survive is to just go be a hermit, live off the land, and be self-sustaining. And I see that and I hear that consistently. And I think ironically enough, but to me it's as clear as day, that's exactly what you represent. That's not what you're saying, but that's exactly what you're encompassing. You're trying to show people how we can combine the energy of the land and our own spirit and how that can better help ourselves in day-to-day. And so to me, it's so clear that the veteran is like, oh gosh, I'm right here. Hey, hey. So to me, it makes so much sense. Although I was absolutely shocked. So that was an interesting little process. But kudos to you. That is amazing. I had no idea. Also, I think I just need to like spy into your little following a little bit more and be like, hey guys, I am too.

SPEAKER_02: 51:09

That's so I know I've been thinking about that. I'm like, how do I address? Because it's not like I'm only ever going to teach veterans, but I also have a student who's really important in the land commission in California. That's all I'll say. She's very important in that. So she's literally working with land, but also in service to our country. And that's just so interesting. Because also people will say, Oh, you're Greek, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but that's just very much just one part of it, which that's the other thing. I do attract a lot of multifaceted people, which is I always assume most people are multifaceted, but that's not actually the case in the mainstream. Every so often I'm at a mainstream event, distanced cousins wedding or something, and I'm confronted with the mainstream. And I'm okay, I am different. There is a big difference.

SPEAKER_00: 51:54

I wonder if that's why the sisterhood that we all feel a little bit like fish out of the water. And that's helps add to the layers that you create in these containers of safety and camaraderie, regardless of differences. Let's find how we can uplift and support together.

SPEAKER_02: 52:11

Yeah, I like to say I can clearly see in you as somebody who comes into any space I facilitate. I can clearly see in you the person who feels like nobody sees them. That's my gift in this life, and it is the most humbling honor that I'm so thrilled to have.

SPEAKER_01: 52:31

Wow. I did not know that about you. That is a humbling honor, but that makes me want to step up my game a little bit to start wearing a cape. There is something to be said about people who feel seen in certain situations where they wouldn't normally feel seen. So that is a major service, Elise. Wow. So what is one of the biggest challenges you have found in holding a spiritual container? Because you have people coming with all kinds of different spiritual backgrounds. Has that been challenging?

SPEAKER_02: 53:16

I think I put this on myself more than other people ever put this on me. But I always want to make sure that people do feel like I see them fully and that I hear them and I remember everything we've said to each other. I've had people message me, they're like, Do you remember you did a tarot reading for me? That was two years ago. I truthfully do not remember the ins and outs of that reading. Sometimes I do remember every so often, like I had this one reading I did for somebody that was really like all the scary cards in a row. Oh, geez, okay, can't sugarcoat this. And then it turned out that her mother was passing on and she was hoping to get an indication that she was gonna die soon because she'd been suffering for so long. So I was like, oh, what that's that one stood out to me. Sometimes they really stand out to me, but nine times out of ten, I'm not gonna remember the ins and outs of what cards somebody got years prior. I sometimes beat myself up about that. I never want people to feel like I don't remember everything that they remember about our interactions. So that's the other reason I keep my containers spaced out as well. Somebody said that to me, why don't you just run red thread at the same time? It makes me feel like I would be two different people. I couldn't do it. I post less on social media when I'm running a container. It becomes my focus. Those people become my focus. And I think it's hard to get across to people who haven't had that experience with a practitioner as a facilitator. But it's true. I guess that's the challenge is making sure that everybody feels that and knows that and and receives what they need to out of it.

SPEAKER_01: 54:40

I get that because when you're in a service position, there are so many deliverables that you want to make sure are conveyed, but there are unmentioned deliverables also, and that connection, that feeling like they're part of things are things that you don't necessarily market, but that you would expect as a container participant. I know that deal when I've had group sessions and you're left with that one or two people that you're wondering, did I make enough of a connection? Did I, and then at some point you have to say everybody was here for what they needed at that moment. And you just hope that if it's meant to be, that you'll be able to impact them later in their lives. I've been a part of several things with you, Elise, and you were able to fold everybody in. And we may not have known each other's names, but we all felt a level of closeness based on why we were there and that specific purpose for that moment. So yeah, give yourself a break there.

unknown: 55:53

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 55:55

I've been in several things now where you've had all different types of people coming together, different genders, different sexual orientations, different venues, different practices. We've had tarot readings, we have mediumship, we've had ghost hunting per se, connecting. I like to think of it, and actually learning through different things with all kinds of different people. And I've never felt like it didn't land well with all of us.

SPEAKER_02: 56:23

So thank you. That's a great reflection. I'm gonna, I'm hoping I can convince Megan to do that with me again this year. The ghost walk and the seance. That was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01: 56:34

That was so much fun, and I like that she gave the practical piece to when I say practical, I mean hands-on, like using different divination tools. My family's Native American, they've been using divining rods for centuries to find water. It's just that magnetic connection that things have. You use those things and ways for validation that I thought was neat that you incorporated that. So it was able to draw a number of different people in from a number of different perspectives. My last question for you is what does a sacred container mean to you at this stage of your journey? Because sacred has a lot of depth to it. And I would say when you're taking people over to Delphi and doing those types of travels, it definitely has a sacred feeling to it. Would you consider your virtual containers also sacred? Oh, yeah, 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 57:37

If anything, the internet is just another form of energy, traveling and exchanging. We get the exact same, you know, sure, we don't get smell or taste in the same way over the internet without some facilitation. We can all buy the exact same incense and make sure that we're all lighting it at the same time. We can all have the same exact snack or the same cup of tea. But for the most part, people think of the internet as other. And I don't think it is. I think it's just another way that energy travels. It's another way we get to connect with people. And so anything that deepens our connection to self and our place on this planet, in this plane, anything that deepens our soul and our soul's purpose is what is sacred. And so containers, of course, are sacred.

SPEAKER_00: 58:33

I think one of the things that's really important also as somebody who's wants to be a participant or is thinking about is this an environment for me? I think something that's incredibly important to remember is sometimes you just have a feeling. And when I signed up for the container, I don't even think I knew the name of it. I'm pretty sure I thought it was called like spiral something or other. And it didn't matter to me. I didn't really care because I felt so called. And I just, I'm using air quotes here, knew there was no way I could afford this. But my soul knew I need to reach out and talk to her. Sometimes it's not about the topic of the container you're providing. It's about everything we've talked about, the energy, the sisterhood. For me, I didn't even necessarily believe in soul family. And I believe I found multiple people out of my soul family in that container. So if you feel called, regardless of what it's talked about, whatever, regardless of what it's posted, maybe you're in a different time zone, maybe you're in a different country, maybe it's a different day. Speak your truth. I've seen Elise bend and flex, and the whole container of individuals be willing to do that. It's Not just Elise. So I hope we've given enough justice to what these containers have brought. You really do bring and provide and meet people in this space that is profound and life-changing forever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:16

And for being you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:17

Because you really do make me always feel seen. Oh right back at both of you. Thank you for being in my life. And thank you for saying yes and trusting your team, your guidance to do that. The other thing, I paid a lot of money for this business container I was in a couple of years ago. And it worked. It got my business more money. And in the end, I was able to come in under certain tax brackets because I had taken that course. I was able to expense it. So if you are a business owner, you can expense containers because they are continuing education. Yeah, but my business is landscaping. Uh, you're working with land, you're taking a container on connecting to nature. Trust me, in the US and Canada, you can expense containers for your business. So really recognize it is investing in yourself in other ways. It's good business.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:10

You have mentioned that anybody that wanted to take a container of yours that was already full, or maybe they just didn't have the resources right at this hot moment, they could join a wait list.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:21

Yes. If you go to seekingumina.com, you'll see all my signature programs there. And each of them have a page up. And you can join the wait list through that page, read through it, see what sounds good. And you can join the wait list for each specific program that calls you. And also my retreats as well. I have a wait list for 2026 that is up right now. And 2026 is functioning really differently. I have, as you both know, I have multiple retreats I'm running that are more specified. So their retreats are containers as well. They're a space where the people involved really, really grow. Time warps in ways I'm always amazed. Like three or four days can feel like a lifetime of transformation. Like my first retreat. So maybe that'll be, oh, maybe that's what we could talk about. My first retreat literally changed my life. Like I lost 80 pounds since that retreat. I literally shed my fears of being seen, and they never have come back. Containers are so life-changing. Retreats are too. It's all my wait lists around seekingnumina.com. And yeah, reach out. You can schedule a call with me too. I literally always want to hear about people's spiritual journeys. I think people think I'm just saying that, but I'm serious. Like I love hearing what draws you, you know, what excites you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:34

Agreed. Perfect. Thank you. And that does sound like the next perfect topic conversation because there are a lot of people that want to be seen but are fearful of it at the same time. Because yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:47

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Fears of being seen. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:51

That's a big one. I have my last question for you, my dear. And that is could you please leave everyone some words of guidance and wisdom that they can take with them on their journeys? And if you feel called to how a spiritual container may also help them along, we would really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:12

Yes. My favorite quote about containers is that sisterhood is where we find permission to expand. So that is my task to you. If you feel small, if you feel like the environment you're in is keeping you that way, find a different environment because it's the people in our lives that create our environment. You know, we have control sometimes over our living space or over different facets of our lives, but it's the people in our lives. We are a social species. We are meant to be communal. And so if you are struggling to find local community, like so many people that turn to the internet for community, you are not alone. There is somebody out there with almost exactly your desires for community and find them. Put out a commitment to yourself, to the universe. Ask your guides okay, I need a community that can support me in this. I need a community that can support me. I need a community. You don't even have to know specifics. Your guides will read those energetics. Your cells will put that out. And when you commit to finding it, it will find you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:26

So do it. Do it, do it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. This is so great, as always. Thank you, my dear. Thanks for diving into the depths with us today. If you enjoyed this episode, show your support at buymeacoffee.com forward slash mystical mermaid lounge. As every little ripple helps keep the magic flowing. Would you like some more deep soul yearning conversations? Well then swim on over to our sister podcast, Past Life's Cafe, where Keone deep dives into those past life experiences. Also, we'd love to hear from you. Please don't forget to rate and review and drop your feedback and comments at our website Mystical MermaidLounge.buzzsprout.com. Thank you again so much. And don't forget to catch us at the next high tide. Bye-bye.