Let Your Art Be the Change

What if your boldest work began the moment you stopped asking for permission? We sit down with NAACP award-winning, self-taught artist, author, and brand strategist Kristen Nicole Mann to explore how creativity can be both sanctuary and sword—healing the self while challenging the stories we’re told about who gets seen and what counts as art.

Details

Kristen traces the surprising path from a college journalism classroom and a foreclosure-law call center during the 2008 crash to her first unexpected art sale and a thriving practice rooted in color, text, and truth. She breaks down her intuitive process—no grids, no sketches, just guided choices that pair vibrant palettes with lines from scripture, Maya Angelou, and other voices that anchor a room. We talk about why she paints women across ages and shades with softness and strength, why hair becomes a site of dignity and memory, and how a single dismissive word—“gig”—clarified her purpose to build legacy-driven work that refuses to shrink.

Along the way, we look honestly at the art world’s gatekeeping: museum wings that relegate community stories to the margins, the difference between African and African American lenses, and the power of online platforms to open doors when institutions won’t. Kristen shares practical wisdom on navigating social media without losing yourself, setting boundaries that protect your energy, and cultivating character so your work can stand in hard weather. If you’ve ever been told your calling isn’t a “real job,” you’ll find a playbook here for turning doubt into direction and pain into color.

Subscribe for more soulful conversations on creativity, healing, and purpose. If this resonated, share it with someone who needs courage today and leave a review to help others find the show.

Contact

Website: Kristen Nicole Mann

Social: KNM Facebook, KNM IG, KNM TikTok

Chapters

• 0:07 Welcome And Host Intros
• 1:10 Meet Kristen Nicole Mann
• 3:20 Early Calling, Journalism, And Story
• 5:20 The First Sale And Leap At 26
• 6:25 Motherhood, Work, And The 2008 Crash
• 10:45 Tough Skin And Not Taking It Personally
• 15:40 Social Media, Negativity, And Fun
• 19:15 Spirit, Process, And Guided Color
• 22:20 Style Evolution And Representing Women
• 26:00 Hair, Identity, And Self‑Esteem
• 30:55 Elephants, Color Theory, And Emotion
• 34:55 Museums, Access, And Who Gets Seen
• 39:10 Beyond The Canvas: Mission And Voice
• 43:20 Rejection, “Gig” Culture, And Choosing Self
• 47:05 Closing Guidance: Character And Light
• 55:57 Support, Sister Show, And Sign‑Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:07

Welcome to the Mystical Mermaid Lounge Podcast, a space where all spiritual seekers are honored and celebrated. This podcast was born from the journeys of your hosts, who have each faced her own dark night at this time. But they've emerged with an unshakable belief in divine connection, cosmic inspiration, and her true life's calling. Join us on a journey of personal growth, transformation, and magical self-discovery. Your first co-host is Chloe Brown, a gifted intuitive empath and shadow work life coach. Your second co-host is Keoni Starr, an intuitive energy worker, an acclaimed past life regressionist. The Mystical Mermaid Lounge podcast starts now. Today with us, we have a beautiful individual inside and out. Her name is Kristen Nicole Mann. She is an NAACP award-winning self-taught artist, author, and brand strategist who blends creativity, storytelling, and purpose to help others build legacy-driven brands. With a background in journalism and a passion for community advocacy, Kristen uses her platforms to spotlight our untold history, empower women in transition, and turn raw ideas into income and impact. Her work bridges the gap between healing and strategy, reminding us that creativity isn't just a gift, it's a tool for change. Agree 100%. And I have personally been able to receive some of Kristen's amazing artwork, and I'm attempting to give some as a gift. We're not quite there yet, but that's the healing part. The work that she does has such an evocative feeling. And I remember, Kristen, I said to you, she and I were communicating on social, and I asked you about this one specific painting that really spoke to me. And you said it was a ballerina on the beach. And yeah, and I always call my daughter Tiny Dancer, and I live on the beach. So it had all of these different layered metaphors to me. And we were going back and forth about how spirit kind of works that way sometimes. Yeah, it was perfect. It was divine. It was divine. So with that, tell us about your divine spiritual journey. How'd you come here? How'd you get here? Your homage to God is in almost everything that you do.

SPEAKER_00: 3:19

Yeah. So I did not start out thinking that I was going to become a professional artist. I always did art, even when I was three, four years old. I have documentation of me just liking art, but throughout school, I kind of got peer pressured into okay, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna be when you grow up? And I honestly always wanted to be an artist. I can't think of any other profession I was really into. So I wanted to be an artist. I love books, I really loved books. I love reading, using my imagination. So when I was graduating high school, I really wanted to go to Paris and leave everybody behind. But I have to be a responsible adult. So I was peer pressured into going to college. And what I decided to go to college for was journalism. I wouldn't do it over again. I would re-go through all of that process of feeling like I didn't know what I wanted to do, confusion. I would go through that again because those little bits of classes for journalism actually helped me with what I do now. So if nothing else, it helped with storytelling. And I've found over the years it was just woven into the works that I've done. And it took me till about 26 to decide, okay, I'm gonna do this as something. And obviously, because someone wanted to buy an art piece from me and I didn't sell, I just threw it up on Facebook and I was like, here's my artwork, or I made this today. I think I said I made this randomly today, and somebody was like, How much? And I was like, What is going on? So it was just toppled after that. I didn't plan none of this, I didn't have to go over sheets or a business plan. I literally just stumbled into it, and that's how everything I've done in art or with writing has I stumbled in it. No plan.

SPEAKER_01: 5:29

Hello, this is Chloe. That is so beautiful, and not until 26. Girl, that is so young.

SPEAKER_00: 5:37

I know, but it was like to me, it was late. I'll say why, because I always knew what I wanted to do. And what I tell children now is do not let people change your mind. If this is something that you really want to do, try to practice it for a couple years, months, whatever the case may be, and see if this is really something you want to do, and don't let your friends change it. Because I just felt a little pressured because they would always be like, What are you gonna do? And I'm like, Well, I'm in advanced art. Do you not see what I'm trying to do? And they're like, Are you gonna be this or that? Well, maybe I need to think about this, and so I went to school quickly, dropped out. I don't why am I doing this? I can't, I had my son, and I couldn't juggle everything, but I could juggle the art with him. I couldn't juggle to college, but it was weird. So I just went into the artistry and uh he was with me at a lot of my first beginning art shows, and we were traveling, and he was only two one year old. And we're in Philadelphia. I just hit the ground running. Before that, though, I did work in foreclosure law, so all stuff we see now is a repeat because I worked when it crashed. It was 2008. Yep. My whole department was laid off, only me was there, and I had to take a lot of phone calls. That trained me too, though, to deal with different people because when you have art customers, sometimes they're not so nice, sometimes they are. So it helped me with the business side of art as well to deal with just people going through foreclosure, having emotions. You have to not tell them what to do, but you can comfort in a way of making them step away from the phone call. Okay, and that was training as well. So all the things that I've done led me to making the decision to be an artist at 26. Admin side and creative side. So many questions.

SPEAKER_02: 7:59

I tried to get yeah. Oh no, I'm so glad you're not older. I'll live nine lives. Yes. So many questions. One is the deterrence from art. It sounds to me like your family, your friends, they just didn't consider it as being a real job. It wasn't like, oh no, you're not talented. It's just that they were looking for you to choose a very traditional career path. Is that true?

SPEAKER_00: 8:34

Yes. And I would say more of that came from friends. My parents were great. They weren't really pressuring me. They was like, if we want to stay home, we don't care. They were great, they really love my creative side, but I couldn't see that they love my creative side. I saw the friends at school and the people on the outside. So, again, do not pay attention to who's not supporting it, pay attention to who's encouraging you to do these things. Because my mom still, till this day, my dad has passed on, but till this day, she still supports everything creative-wise. And she's probably the only one that understands in my family because they're just like, You're doing that? What are you doing? You're online, what do you do? And I'm like making more than most of them, but they don't know that. Uh I just make it look too easy to them, and they're like going through all the wools, and I just don't let things get to me like them because again, you go through something traumatic like that in 2008, where your whole department is laid off and you're only 19, 20, and you have to do all these jobs in one. So that really trained me to just face everything without fear because I've had grown people with families laid off, and they're walking out with boxes, and they're teaching me how to live in the world, and then they're gone. So that was very traumatic, and I didn't realize that until later in life. I was like, that was trauma. I wouldn't really suggest a 19-year-old go through that, but it really helped mold and shape me to get the criticism that the art industry has a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02: 10:27

Putting a 19-year-old who clearly has no major business and customer dealings with people who, like you said, they're in their fields about all kinds of things. Yes, feeling ripped off, feeling loss, feeling grief, feeling fear, and all the things. And then depending on what kind of foreclosure law area you're in, sometimes it's commercial, and then there's a huge dollar number going along with that. My sister did foreclosure law in 2008, also, and she didn't know when I'm yes, she's a survivor, also. So I know exactly what you mean. But did that help toughen you in that? Because before we started recording, you and I were talking about how you have this, I don't take things personally type of perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 11:20

Yes, it did help toughen me. There were people that would show up at the office very upset, and they wouldn't personally attack me, but I was the first person that you would talk to. So you couldn't take that and feel like, okay, I'm the only one being attacked. There's a whole set of employees behind me, but you're attacking me. So I had to professionally recognize that they're in pain and that they're going through something that they thought was never going to be the case. Um, it was people really going through pain. They were losing everything, and you had to take that into account and learn how to talk to them, learn how to tell them it's going to be okay without telling them what to do. So it really was a bootcamp to me. I can't describe it still till this day to a lot of people because they don't think that I've ever had that happen in my life because they see the artists. And I'm like, no, no, no. I haven't just begun. So they think your world is full of acrylic rivals. You know, like and I'm like, no, I have an admin side, I have a professional side, because I was even looking into being a lawyer because of it. I always had that defending people advocating for people in me. So I went through the lawyer, the nurse, the what else? But God was like, you'll be a nurse in another way. And I didn't know what that was at the time. I was freaking out because I was like, I have a son, I have life to live, what is going on?

SPEAKER_02: 13:07

And you said it best though, Kristen, while you were trying to do college and trying to do all of these other things and juggling, being a mom, it was so hard. But when you were doing what you loved, it was like didn't feel like it was struggled.

SPEAKER_00: 13:25

No, it didn't. It did not. And I feel like sometimes people want me to say that because there is a lot of mom struggle content, and I'm like, hmm? Really? That's not me. Hey, you feel bad, but I'm not gonna make up a scenario. I really loved having him at everything I did. Yes, it's tiring, but he now knows what he can do from scratch with nothing. So that's the best impact that I can make. Forget everybody else. If my son is not impact, then I'm a failure at being a mom.

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

I cannot imagine at 18 years old, 19 years old, shoot any of those years. Like the amount of energy that is coming at you, whether it's on the phone or physically, like kudos for you to be able to recognize that is not you. Sometimes I'll have that one negative inner thought, and no matter how much everyone around me loves and supports me, it's that one negative naysayer who often is you know, maybe the leaf flying by in my car. That's how insignificant they are in my life. And for some reason, that one will feel like it holds the weight. So for you to be able to trudge through so much muck and still be able to shine that light internally and at home and recognize what really is important to you. That's crazy beautiful. I love that you spent some time sharing that with us because no, thank you. Because that's we've all every one of us can relate in some capacity or another. And that is that's real. I can't imagine being in that. And look at the light that came out.

SPEAKER_00: 15:27

Yes, it takes crushing for you to shine like that. So, yes, I'm not regretful at all.

SPEAKER_01: 15:35

And look at your artwork now. Oh my gosh. Wow, it holds and embodies that energy that yeah, it feels like the energy that I saw when I first got into this Zoom call with you. And I'm so sad that our listeners don't get to see you. You have this beautiful energy that I mean, you're stunning, but thank you. In addition to that, you have this energetic, cheerful, bold, and proud, authentic feeling that comes across in your art. I wonder how connected that is. The immense pressure that you went through evolved into this stunning artwork. That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Sorry, you've been rambling.

SPEAKER_00: 16:20

I take compliments, so I learned how to.

SPEAKER_01: 16:45

I love that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 16:48

There is a special receptivity energy that we all should embody, right? If someone takes the time and the and that moment to be truthful like Chloe was about you, why not just say thank you? Right, right. This may go against what some people think. I will not put criticism out on Yelp. I will only put good things. If I do not like it, I will not put my opinion out there, unless it's a danger type of scenario. And the reason is because it's my opinion. Who am I to ruin someone's business because I didn't care for the sauce or whatever? Okay, so that is just how I comment things. I can imagine people saying that about me and my work and saying we just didn't jive. Well, guess what? That doesn't mean I didn't do good work. That just means you and I just weren't a good fit. Exactly. The reason I say this is because when I look at, for instance, the AI design that Chloe puts together for our podcast, or when I look at the beautiful things you put together, even if something doesn't speak to me, I don't feel, which is not the case, but if it didn't, I don't feel I have the right to criticize the fact that you had the ambition, the motivation, and flat out the balls to put yourself out there and to show people what's inside of you now being manifest through painting, through fabric work, through all of these different medium. So, how doesn't that that would hurt me personally to have something I created to be denigrated by the public or by a critic? How do you do that? It hurts me for you thinking someone might do that.

SPEAKER_00: 18:49

Yeah, it is pretty, it can be painful. I'm not gonna say every day I'm like whatever, because sometimes I do take it to heart. But because of the training that I've had and just knowing how that feels to carry it, I just don't like carry it no more. I just decided I don't want to carry other people's stuff. So I just have learned daily to take it in strides, not react before I think it out, because sometimes I can and I'll type it up and then I'll erase it. If I'm online, I'll type it up and I'm like, it's not worth it. But I I have been able to help people if they have questions behind the scenes. I've taken some major hits with people just coming to my table saying I could paint that. It's a lot of people that started trying to have an art business, but they feel that the business side, there's a business side to this. It's not just painting. I don't just paint all day. I have to talk, I have to network, I have to make sure people believe in what I do. Because if I don't believe in it, nobody's gonna believe in it or try to buy it. So that's a whole process in itself, and so that's what I try to put out. I'm not just coloring with crayons, I'm actually very smart, and I do know a lot of things, and if I want to branch out to other things, I have the permission to do that, but I could still paint a picture.

SPEAKER_02: 20:34

How do you respond to somebody who says, I could paint that?

SPEAKER_00: 20:42

I've had it a couple times in person, so this wasn't online. This was in person. It's a lot of people that I get that come around me that are jealous, but I have this like real strong discernment. I learned when I was young. I would just feel when a person was performing, and I really got an extension of that from my dad because he was in the army. He would teach me how to people watch, observe, and that's how I am, but my mom's not like that. So I had to teach her how to do that too. She wants to tell everything, and I'm like, no mom. Just watch and observe. In some situations, we have to be the person for who they are. And so when I do that, sometimes it turns people off because they're like, you're mean, or you're this, or you're that, and I'll be smiling and they're like, You're mean. No, I just don't want to tell you everything. So we have to get to know each other. That really has helped me in business, especially I don't participate in a lot of things with my art. I'm very cautious. Of course, I had to because I was a new business. So I had to get out there and do certain things, but I'm really protective of where my art is, and I've learned to say no. And it's been the best thing ever because I live a peaceful life. Although I'm out there and stirring controversy is very peaceful on the back end. Not talking to these people on the on the phone, or I'm not living my life with these people. So when they do it online, I just laugh. And then sometimes I'll have fun and I'll just go back and forth and they'll just go off on their own. And they'll realize, oh, I'm not really talking to a dumb person. It's a growing, it's every day you learn something now. So I never get in that space where I know how this is gonna go. What people are gonna say, I never, you can't ever set yourself up like that.

SPEAKER_02: 22:45

First of all, social media is very interesting because people use it as a way to be mean to each other. That's my whole opinion behind Yelp. I'm not gonna use that as a hall pass for me to berate other people, right? So, but the things that draw criticism on social media, and then I will ask you a real question, Kristen. Yeah. The things that draw um opinions that are so negative on social media blows my mind. And I say this because one time, and the things that go viral blow my mind too. So I answered a question one time, it was just this stupid little the question. Was actually very cool. It was the one thing that if you could tell everybody that would help them, what would it be? Now that that can be controversial. All I said was my dentist told me a zillion years ago not to spit out the toothpaste, to leave it on your teeth as a coating. That's all I wrote. And it changed my dental hygiene. And Chloe knows how I feel about dental hygiene. It's like a part-time job to me. It's like I have to get up early to do this thing. And so the first thing someone writes is, that's terrible. You're putting fluoride in your body. And I wrote, no, no, no, I didn't say you had to use fluoride. When you use whatever toothpaste you use, just don't rinse it out of your mouth. Just let it coat your teeth because it's just an extra barrier. So that when you, especially for me, because I do drink coffee and soda. And so within two days, my answer got 5,000 views. But the people that came back and said, don't listen to her, she's the devil. She's trying to put chemicals in your system. They're governmental chemicals that are put in your system to track your mood.

SPEAKER_00: 24:46

Oh my gosh, that got out of control.

SPEAKER_02: 24:50

Oh, I was trying to say is help your teeth. I have never had a cavity, actually. But oh good.

SPEAKER_00: 24:56

Yeah, so you know what you're talking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:58

Yeah. The things that people grab on and take over are out of control. Out of control. So the fact that you're willing to put yourself out here, and you and I were talking about history and untold history. Um, I'm sure a lot of people have heard the book about the four agreements. And one of the agreements they were talking about is speaking impeccably, which is something I'm trying to do. It's a it's an ongoing thing. It is. We just have to be conscious. But the one thing that I was thinking about that you said, Kristen, was we all agree that certain things are true, and that's what makes it true, not that it is true. So when I think back and you're bringing up things that you know are true, and people aren't agreeing with you, which doesn't mean it's not true. It just means they don't agree, right? Exactly. I remember being told in history class that slaves happily helped the plantation owners harvest their crops. I remember, and my mom is a Native American, and my mom grew up on the res. I remember learning that the Indians cohabited peacefully in reservations in order to raise their family. And I remember reading this stuff in history books. And then when I went to college and the real truth started to and I'm thinking, yeah, wait a minute here. Yeah, what is happening? So the fact that you're willing to put something even more meaningful than my dental habits out on social media and allow people to react to it in whatever way they need to, I think is beautiful. What gives you the guts to do that?

SPEAKER_00: 26:56

I honestly ask myself that every day.

unknown: 27:00

Every day.

SPEAKER_00: 27:05

All of that is not good, people. I just I have this thing where people like to argue with me or debate me. And the thing is, my favorite class when journalism was debating. So it's all interwoven. I was in that class. I will never have to use this. Why am I here? Boy, did I have to use it since my career started. Because I started selling online, I knew we were gonna get here. I started selling online in 2016. It wasn't like it is now. People are trying to figure this platform out or this platform. We didn't have a bunch of the extra platforms that's out now. We didn't have threads, we didn't have Instagram, it was new. It was definitely way different than now. It was better, I think, but it was way different. When you're a pioneer in selling online, you have to wait for people to catch up because I was dealing with that back then. So these people that comment now, I'm like, I've been dealing with you for eight years, 10 years, it's fine. But the new people, they're like, they add to it. So when you go into anything that you're doing in person or online and you're expecting negativity, that's what's gonna happen. That is what's gonna happen, and it's going to feed that. You're gonna turn your day into something dark. I have fun with social media, so I just put it up. Whoever attracts to it, whatever, I'll comment back to some of the comments. I have so much fun with it, and I think that's what really helps me is the fun part. It's like creative to me. I don't look at it as I'm trying to be an expert, and it takes people like you all, and maybe even my mom and other people from the outside. They're like, you can't be teaching this. I don't see myself as trying to be better. I just literally love the tool, and that's how I go about it. I love that.

SPEAKER_02: 29:19

It takes the perspective of what I come with is what will manifest. And the only thing I can do is control my reaction, right? Like I wrote one time, I did not say you had to use fluoride toothpaste. And hey, I'm not gonna write it 5,000 times. No, you're not.

SPEAKER_00: 29:37

That's one thing I've learned. I don't have to overexplain myself. I used to think that I did because you know, people pleasing, all the things you gotta heal from. I've healed, so I'm like, you're not gonna get too much out of me that's feeling like I have to make you like me. I don't do that no more.

SPEAKER_02: 29:58

When you were talking earlier. I don't know if you believe in orbs and angels and spirits, but there was one that traveled from your window around your plant and then went back up the ceiling. So just letting you know. Thank you. I thought about it. Yeah, it was when you were talking about putting your business first out online and how you just did that. And yeah, it was like it was pretty cool. We believe that spirit speaks to us through creativity in all kinds of ways, any way that someone can be creative. Do you feel the essence of your higher self, your soul, all of it coming through in your artwork? What does that feel like? Does it inspire you? Does it keep you going? Does it help you choose colors? Tell me about that process.

SPEAKER_00: 30:56

Yeah, the process. So I'll take you from the beginning to the end really fast. But in the beginning, I was very energized by it. So I was just painting everything. I was like, oh, that, and people were buying, buying. But then over a period of time, I'll say when my son was about five or six, I started having to do more and leaning into motherhood. And I realized I was neglecting that. So I was like, you're a mom. I know it sounds crazy, but I was, you're a mom. It dawned on you. Right. He was just going with me and on my hip. And then I was like, he's talking now. So I have to pour into him. So I started learning that I don't have to put out as much to everyone because that's what it was starting to be. I was just like, I don't feel good. I don't like how I feel. When it happens now, I know I get the colors. I don't necessarily see colors. Sometimes I will, but I'll get almost like a voice. You need to do blue. You need to do this. And then sometimes my hand is guided. It's not me. It could be a draining process, depending on how new you are to it. But that's why I don't do it every single day. I can't afford to do that. It will take like a mental hit. I'll be tired. So I've learned to live life, let life be inspiration to me. I don't have to be stuck in my little craft room, do stuff, talk to people because artists tend to only say to themselves, sometimes they don't even get to the business side of it. I try my best to help artists understand you have to live life for the inspiration. That's what they did back then. That's all they had was to live life. They didn't have the screens and everything else that we have. So you have to use what you went through and then put it in your work. And that's just it's a process that I'm still learning, but it does feel like inspiration, motivation, and you're just like, okay, I'm just gonna go. But I don't draw none of my paintings before I do it. I don't draw none of it. I don't outline.

SPEAKER_02: 33:30

You don't sketch it out, nothing.

SPEAKER_00: 33:33

It messes it up for me. I don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:37

So you're better to just get the inspiration, however, it comes with whatever colors and just go.

SPEAKER_00: 33:43

Yes. I hated art class for that because they made us great. And I was like, I am not doing that. I never did it.

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

Never that was actually gonna be one of my questions was successful. I never felt like an artist. That's not a word I personally connect with. I always consider myself crafty and creative because I have the vision, but not the context and how to translate it, which is why social media reels have been fabulously fun for me because there's a little bit of vulnerability, but you're not really putting yourself out there and it's not as physically tangible. So I was gonna ask about that. When you go to do your painting, yes, do you come to that canvas already maybe not thoroughly knowing, but consciously feeling like I know what I'm gonna do? Or do you go in going nope? And then all of a sudden you just create this manifestation of loveliness and you're like that just came out of me. Tell us a little bit about what that's like if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_00: 34:47

It's a little of both. I like to have the t-shirt on. I don't perform, but I go live painting a lot on YouTube more, but I need to get back to it. But I just want to show people, use the blank canvas, and then build upon it. So that's what I do. It's blank, I might look through some photography to get inspiration. I do a lot of side profiles, and then obviously I don't add features. That was something that I did not start with. I actually started with doing features and the perfect art that I learned how to do. But then I was like, I can do what I want, and I just look like just went off in my own style. I love quotes, I love words, I love doing women. I just don't think we get represented enough in a positive way, and that's all colors. Like it doesn't have to be just black women. All in the museums, I just don't think we're represented well in painting. So it's always rough or and I'm like, I'm not rough. We all have our rough edges, but I'm not like that on a daily basis. So I wanted to soften the approach. Let's see them in color, bold, something different. And I just go with the flow. When I feel like I'm forcing it, I stop. I don't finish. I'll put you to the side. Because I just don't, I don't want it forced. I can tell. Other people probably can't, but I definitely can tell if I force the painting. I don't like that feeling, I put it to the side. So that's how I go about that. That's total opposite of what my art teacher taught me. But I said her over the years what I do now, and she's like, I always knew. But of course, she couldn't tell me that in class, she couldn't have favorites, but she always knew. She had to decide if I was gonna be in advance, and she did. And I was shocked when she did, but because I hated griting, just do what I say, and then I'll let you do whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 37:01

Right, learn the foundation, just do the curriculum, and then you go. So I let you run.

SPEAKER_00: 37:09

Right. She actually used that to help uh African-American student that was struggling with what she wanted to do as her style. So she was like, We just had a conversation and I can show her what she sent me and say that you're doing that now.

SPEAKER_02: 37:24

When you said that you like to portray women in a really positive light, as you know, that was one of the things I had noticed about your work. And I think empowering is is overused, and I know it's not a favorite word right now, but I do feel empowered for women when I see your work, and I understand the controversy around the word. So, what was it about the way women have been portrayed? Every color, every hairstyle, every type of woman you are representing feels lovely and beautiful and strong, but not overpowering strong. Just the essence of feminine. I don't even know how to describe it. So, what was it that was so important about portraying females that way, portraying women? You have women of all different ages as well.

SPEAKER_00: 38:29

Yes, I think that came from I just was pondering on how I was not typically the stereotype. We do have a stereotype as African American women, and I've actually had to explain to people in person because they've asked me, like, are you from Ethiopia? Are you from America? I'm like, what is going on? Why would they ask me that? It's judgmental, but it's honestly they don't understand what they're seeing. That's what I had to get to. Okay, they can't pinpoint who I am or this attitude because they're used to one way. The TV didn't help us at all, but they're used to one way. So I learned to use those ignorant moments and turn it into something positive. I go to a lot of museums and I don't see a lot of black women that look like they're not struggling. That was literally the beginning of that. I want to paint what I feel about myself and how I want to look. So these kids that are coming up behind me, they can't say that it's not out here. And so that's what I did. The bold colors are intentionally done because you just don't see a lot of that. And I'm a bold person, so I'm like, yeah, we're gonna throw a highlight yellow, and it's we're gonna do all these colors that people don't think need to be together. Subtly, I challenge you, your eyes to see something that you never saw before, but then you're reading a quote, and then you're like, how did she do it? What? Yeah, it turns into a conversation piece with the piece that you bought. It's just again, it's I just wanted to do something with color, so I just tried a different style, and I was like, Let it get this out there. I love color, I don't think the world is black and white, and anybody telling people that they're lying because it's not, so that's how and why all of your women have different hair, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 40:54

So some are dark, some are light, some are plaited, some are natural. What about our hair speaks to you because that is a very female specific attribute of our bodies that all people tend to focus on?

SPEAKER_00: 41:13

Yes, hair is very important to me per se. I keep my hair done, but I also do my hair in a way that's also art. So, like now I have blonde. You might have seen me with a bun, my own hair. I just try to you be a walking billboard of art. So I love expressing that in my opinions because I think black women have low self-esteem when it comes to their hair. Not everyone had the privilege of having hair like mine. Mine is like down, maybe down here. And I take care of it. Uh, and there's been this trend of just not taking care of your hair in the black community. I never grew up like that. So again, I try to challenge what people think is the norm of thinking, well, black women don't have hair. Yes, they do. You just haven't seen it. So I'm gonna put it in a painting, and then I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna force you to see this in another light. And it's just about self-esteem. I just think that is a pain point with black women, with all women. I've had people with cancer say, I miss my hair, but seeing your painting helps me just reminisce in a positive way. So it's very important, and I love that it's a staple in my paintings. I can't get away from it. I just love painting it.

SPEAKER_02: 42:43

So I love that, and I have to tell you, my mom, I told you she's Native American. The part of Native area that she's from, they have very thick, very long, um, some wavy, not super curly, but very thick hair. And my mom, when she turned 75, 76, started losing her hair. And it's because of age, I guess, maybe hormones, who knows? And that hurt her.

SPEAKER_03: 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 43:13

So to see a painting with someone who's not super white, who has a little color to their skin with thick, full hair, she feels seen when she sees that. So I wanted you to know that. And I love the fact that you bring up women's hair is a pain point, and especially for people of color, because that is not commercially where our products are advertised mainstream. And it is an expensive process, it can be extremely expensive and cost prohibitive to care for your hair in a way that you'd want to. And that goes for people of all color. It is a very expensive scenario. And if you have hair that that takes extra care, I digress for a moment, but how many men say, Oh, I just love to see long, luscious hair? You have no idea what you're saying. Yes. Because yeah, because my hair, as an example, is very frizzy. So, in order for it to get like this, takes at least an hour. And if your person who does have very kinky or coily hair to see it long and luscious is a thing. Yeah, it's a thing. I love the fact that you said there are women of all colors that have long hair, and it's maybe this way is long, yeah, or maybe this way is long. Don't just color it in one broad brush. That right long blonde is all we have. Yeah, but if you choose to, it's your right.

SPEAKER_00: 44:53

Yes, it is your right back in the day. I was part of this exhibition that was full of African-American artists from like 1800s to 1900s, like late 1900s. So I had the opportunity to be on the advisory board. And so when I was looking at the printings, I was seeing a common theme where a lot of the hair was like uh brushed back, wasn't really expressed. A lot of pictures of slaves, the artists needed a model, and they were like maybe just sitting there for them. You can feel that through the painting. Then when you got to 1920, a lot of hats. So it wasn't really a lot of hair out, and we're just not in those times no more. So I just wanted to okay, I can pay homage, but we're in this time now, so you don't have to feel like you have to suppress that side of creativity for you.

SPEAKER_01: 45:58

Yes, I think that's exactly what I picked up on all when I was looking at all of your beautiful pictures of past paintings and going through your social media. I wrote that down actually, because I feel like it's the pain and the anguish from the historical paintings that you're talking about that most of us pick up and can feel in that, right? But what I love about your art is that you are encompassing where we are now. And I love that you're saying that because we can be beautifully unique and still cohesive, and we can take those moments, whether it's our hair, whether it's red lipstick, you know, like whatever it is, and own that as what we want, even if it's just for five minutes, but love those moments about ourselves, but more importantly, loving ourselves. And that's what I feel in your artwork that I have seen. So I just had to share that because that's what I picked up the moment I saw it. I appreciate that because as somebody who loves to, I certainly am not educated in the art world or know much about it except when something speaks to me that it does. And that was your art. It just spoke to me, and that was the message I pulled through. So that's beautiful. Thank you for making it and being here.

SPEAKER_00: 47:30

Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad that you all are saying that because you're confirming like what I would like to put out. And sometimes you don't know if you're doing that enough, but I've had to lighten up on myself throughout the years and just know you are doing enough. Yeah, if people don't want to see it, they don't want to see it, and let them go on and do their own thing.

SPEAKER_02: 47:55

I'm so glad you said that. You include inspirational things. So for people who don't see it, they can't read. Um, you include beautiful Bible verses, Maya Angelo, and some other poets that have said just the most amazing inspirational things. You incorporate those verses and lines in your artwork. What made you think to do that? I have to imagine it's very difficult from a spacing, just a logistical standpoint, and then to make sure that the words pop. So I look at that and think, how in the hell did she fit all that in?

SPEAKER_00: 48:38

That's what I say every time I do it. I'm like, how am I doing? But I do it because again, I try to push the norm. You don't see that in museums. That was my whole thing. Like, I was so anti-museums for a one a long time, but I'm not now. I love museums, I think they should stay open, but I do think they try to keep all of the creativity that's out here in the world out, and it gives one way of looking at artistry, and I just didn't agree with that. So my activist side, that's where that came from, without it being overpowering. I just wanted to add it to help the whole look that comes to me too, actually. So I don't be like, this needs to be if I put like a highlight yellow, like I need a bold quote. Or if I have it like with all blues, it doesn't need to overpower the blue. So I try to go and lean into that with the color and the words. And of course, like I said, I loved reading. I still love reading, but I was I was an avid reader. Like I was on fourth grade level at kindergarten, first grade. Books like really helped me strengthen my imagination. My dad was an alcoholic, and I'll never forget it. I wanted to know why he was an alcoholic. And I found this book, and I don't know the name of it till this day. I really think the angel gave me that because I I found it as a kid, and I read it, and it went through all the types of alcoholism that can be the case for an adult. And I read it and I understood, and I never found that book till this day. I never found that book, and that helped me know what kind of alcohol it was my dad. I know words are powerful, and it's helped me throughout the years. So I love adding that to my paintings because you might look at this painting every day and whether it's your room, your bathroom, whatever, and I want you to be able to read it and it connects with you. So that's why the words are there. That's how that process goes.

SPEAKER_02: 51:06

Perfect. They're just perfectly interwoven. Just from logistics to presentation, and you can feel that if it's a bold color, a bold verse. If it's more of a serene color, a serene verse.

SPEAKER_00: 51:26

Where sometimes I don't add them either because I'm like the painting is enough. Is enough.

SPEAKER_02: 51:31

Yeah. The one print I have is of that beautiful elephant. It reminds me of Gadesh. I have a thing for elephants. So when I saw that, I thought, holy cow, I gotta get that. Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00: 51:46

So I have a thing for elephants too. I actually have one in my living room that I painted. I was trying to sell it, and I was like, no, I'm gonna just change my whole decor around this. So there's one painting has blues in my whole living room around it, and I just like elephants, and the one you got was like one of my first paintings. I saw this picture, and I think I can make that a painting, but I just wanted it colorful, so I literally was just dotting and I'm gonna see how this goes, and then it just started coming together. I never have a plan for how these things. So, like when it was finished, it became a favorite from my customers. Like, I've had to do that with quilts, with no quilts. It just took off because it was an authentic moment, and I wasn't trying to make it look like anything I've seen. So I just took what I saw and I made it something else, and so the colors were just it just came together. I was just adding, I just really like to be different with the coloring. Like I want to challenge that in a lot of people, so you can see purples, blues, yeah, gold. That's what I was going to say. Yep. Yeah, I really love gold, and it's looking at you.

SPEAKER_02: 53:17

Yes, I think, and please, I know enough about color theory to tell you that I know why McDonald's has that gold arch. That's all I know. It's warm, it's inviting. But what I can say is when I saw that picture, first of all, it has a little bit cooler colors in it, and a lot of your stuff is has a the warm side. So it caught my attention right away. And I love all spectrums of color, it's just a little more on the cooler side, and it has elephants are so big and so majestic, and yet you use the cooler tones, which brings it to a more emotional level. And I am far from an art critic. I don't even know what I look at. I love Monet, and then I love things that have been created by Peruvian tribes that or in Andean tribes that just speak to me. So I am no critic. My dad worked for the Indian Museum at Smithsonian.

SPEAKER_00: 54:25

Really? Yeah, yeah, he did for a few years.

SPEAKER_02: 54:29

Yeah, it's amazing. That is so yeah. Why can't I work in a place like that?

SPEAKER_00: 54:34

Oh, sorry, there's enough. It's very interesting. The stories he had, and we yeah, we have that in our lineage. Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 54:43

I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 54:43

I just wanted to mention that.

SPEAKER_02: 54:45

Yeah, no, I I love it. If you're into epigenetic DNA changes, the fact that the fact that your father was there, and then you're able to incorporate those things and then use color to someone like me who knows very little about art except what I love.

SPEAKER_00: 55:03

Yes, that's a whole point. I want people that don't, they wouldn't necessarily collect or know that language or anything to feel like they could be a part of that with my art. I'm not sure. So I'm kind of bridging. Yeah, I'm bridging the the gap or the myth that you can't collect art unless you're this kind of person or that. That's the real life.

SPEAKER_02: 55:30

Some African American museums of art and other collectibles are being unfunded, if not torn down. Yeah, and that hits me a couple of ways. Uh one just from the the absolute destructive side of it, showing the most base of humanity and someone making a decision about what they consider to be valuable creativity is just I don't have words, it makes my my throat close up. Um, but you said something earlier that speaks to the fact that I don't think we need to tear these things down when you go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, you're seeing a patriarchal white establishment vision of what they believe. And I'm not picking on the Metropolitan, I'm just in general, it Baltimore Museum of Art, I just went there not too long ago, and where the more tribal and more community-based artworks were were in a small wing compared to the Van Gogh and the Rembrandt wings, right? So by by tearing down something that exists in and of itself when we already have the message that these things don't necessarily count as much by the way that they're being portrayed, which is why I understand why you had to get over yourself with museums, because I totally get it. Don't you think that we're now just stabbing the message we've already gotten in general traditional museums?

SPEAKER_00: 57:15

Yeah, you brought up a key point because I have found over throughout my career, I've been able to do a lot of things artists don't do. So I've been able to be on advisory boards and I'm not classically trained, I don't have a degree. Um, I'm self-taught, so that's already looked down upon in the industry. But for some reason, I've been invited to all these things that I still have not shared. Other artists, they will try to, how I put this, they'll try to talk down on me because I don't have a degree. So there's that thing like, how is she doing this? And she's with these people, but I went to school all these years. So there's that, then the museum part where you said there's like smaller sections. I noticed that before I was trying to become professional, so that's when I came into the professional side of it. I had this goal to broaden, use online as a tool to broaden this perspective. And I find African art is more accepted than African American art. And that's not a conversation that's really broaden throughout the years, which I thought was going to be. So that's why I've pivoted my TikTok platform. There's only so much you can do on threads, but TikTok, Facebook, all these things, I try to educate that we're here. I know you accept African. I love African, I have African earrings on. I loved that. But when I took a trip to Africa, I realized I'm American. I'm not African. They have different ways of living that I unfortunately and fortunately didn't get to grow up in. I grew up in America, so I have these thoughts going through when I'm visiting Africa, and then when I get back, it was very hard for me to adjust, and I couldn't figure out why. Why do I feel I need to do more in something else? Like it's beyond the painting now. So that stirring was happening, and what I told you earlier about people bashing me was part of that stirring that I just decided to put out. I could no longer hold on to it. So that's what comes with that, but that's my mission now. Is beyond the painting, I'll still. Paint, but now I'm gonna be speaking. I'm going to use everything that I have to share this information because I'm afforded to. There's people in Africa that's not afforded to. There are some that's afforded to in Africa, but it's still different. I'm American. So I have to come from that lens. And it's very important, even now that I found out yesterday at PBS, the public broadcasting station that I've had the opportunity to be interviewed on was a huge part of my childhood, is now done. So I didn't know that was coming, but God did. So I'm thinking, like, why am I feeling like this? No, I don't want to leave the canvas and papers. Now I know why. Because it's it's becoming extinct. Like our information is becoming extinct. And like you said, the patriarchy is shaping and molding and trying to keep different perspectives of life out. I don't hate anybody, but I'm just watching it and observing, and I'm just on a different path. And I think when you understand that, you just have to lean into that, and you can't let anything change what you feel on the inside. So although it's sad, I'm just every day I make it a mission. So that's what keeps me afloat. It's like this is a mission.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:34

So I love your mission. It thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:38

That's some wisdom right there. Yeah, it was a hard process, but seeing these things unfold, it just makes sense. The things that God told me in private time. I'm like, okay, now I know why now I know why he said these certain things, and you want me to be doing these because you don't want to do it. That's how you really know you're supposed to be doing something because you don't want to do it. I'm like, want to do this. I want to stay in my craft room that have the negative comments. But he built me to have that because, like I said, I started out with the foreclosure law. Like I didn't know a crash was coming. So all that built the skin to have people say, this doesn't matter. Oh, you're just a slave. Oh, no, no, no, no. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:33

I hope you did tell all those arrogant artists that your art studio you call a craft room. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:43

I and I love people's minds. I was thinking that crafting. I used to be like that too, just to be a part of the art industry crowd of like crafting. But that's like how I got to almost a hundred thousand people on my Facebook because I share crafts, not because I try to be better or it's simple, simplicity that really grows.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:08

Your authenticity feels like it naturally challenges the norms in the way that each one of us internally feels, but don't know how to express.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:39

Like you said, it's the inner part of them that wants that, and they don't feel they can have it, but they can, but they just it's too much stuff, so yeah. But I I also had the opportunity to work at a church with a pastor. That's a whole other episode, but I really thought it was gonna be different than what it was. It was my worst job that I ever had, and that was the most rejection I dealt with. That was not that long ago, that was about 2019 before COVID.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:17

And uh COVID was a blessing, I'll put it like COVID made you continue your path with social media and continue to market yourself in the way that you needed to market, yes, and to reach the people that you needed to reach.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:35

Yes, and that particular person told me once that I wasn't gonna be able to do something art related because I had to stay at work when everything was done for the day, and he called it a gig. And something in me just you're at work, you're being professional. But when you know for a fact what I do, I don't hide it, I don't keep art as a secret no more. This is what my work, my life's work. I'm just here to make the income. When you call something that I do a gig, entered something in me. I was like, I cannot be here. And shortly after I resign. I'm supposed to be out there, I'm not supposed to be in here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:28

Yeah, that comment certainly reflected their opinion on a lot of things, it felt like certainly it essentially said art and that creativity, that energetic creative spark, which is spirit, yes, a creative spark, basically said has no value.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:51

Yeah, that's what he basically should have turned the sentence into. And I remember that day, I was like, I am never gonna have nobody say that to me ever, because I had a classroom waiting for me to come and talk to them, and then I had to talk to myself and say, How can I keep telling these kids, these young adults, go after your dreams, do and I'm not doing that. I'm lying to them. Authenticity. Well, yeah, I made that decision. That was my last job in the professional world.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:24

I love how we covered all of our topics with it just being an organic discussion. I love that. But I I do have one last question for you, Kristen, and you know what it's going to be. We like to leave our listeners with something that and us as people in general need to hear to help us hang on to the guideposts to help us get back to creativity? What would you recommend we do or give us guidance, especially in such a divisive, chaotic, I would say unkind world right now? And you've you've felt it personally. So what would you guide us to do to stay creative, to stay in touch with each other and to see each other as the creative sparks that we really are?

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:22

Yeah, I would just say you have to dig deep, like deep go challenge the darkness, don't be afraid of it. And you will have to face some of the ugliness inside of you before you try to face the world and tackle their ugliness. And that's what's really helped me is I've sat with parts of myself that I was like, that is not good. You need to change, like character check for sure. So I would tell your audience or anyone listening, check your character because that's gonna carry you further than anyone's opinion, anyone trying to change what you want to do, your character is really what matters. And I've been able to dig deep. And yes, it was lonely, it was dark. Sometimes you have to do that though, because it's a lot of people coming at me now, and I'm so glad I had those moments where it helped me talk to people, be in the spotlight. I know now looking back, God wanted me to do that for a reason. So you could show up shining the light in the darkness we're in now, because it is dark, but we have each other to get through.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:49

Thank you, beautiful soul. Thank you. Thank you all for such a pleasure having you here. And yes, you've convinced me to give away the purse. Oh it's the right thing to do. Yes, it's the right thing to share it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:09

I'll have to tell it. Surprises.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:19

Oh, don't even say that. Kiony is such an art person, like music speaks to me, and it's like the it's what connects me to the world. I love music too. Yes, that's good. Keone is art. Like she says she's not this art person. She loves it all. It connects her, she loves it. So to see her face light up, that was so cute.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:45

Thank you, my friend. Thank you. I enjoyed this. Me too. Have a good one. Keep shining your light, please. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:57

Thanks for diving into the depths with us today. If you enjoyed this episode, show your support at buymeacoffee.com forward slash mystical mermaid lounge. As every little ripple helps keep the magic flowing. Would you like some more deep soul-yearning conversations? We'll then swim on over to our sister podcast, Past Life's Cafe, where Keone deep dives into those past life experiences. Also, we'd love to hear from you. Please don't forget to rate and review and drop your feedback and comments at our website, mysticalmermaidlounge.buzzsprout.com. Thank you again so much, and don't forget to catch us at the next high tide. Bye bye.